RadioReference on Facebook   RadioReference on Twitter   RadioReference Blog
 

Go Back   The RadioReference.com Forums > Amateur Radio > Amateur Radio General Discussion


Amateur Radio General Discussion - General discussion forum for amateur radio topics not covered by the above forums.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2017, 12:18 PM
Member
   
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Loudoun Heights, VA
Posts: 486
Default They say ham radio is a dying hobby...

And after stumbling across the "world-wide DMR net" a few minutes ago, I now know why. Yeesh.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2017, 12:22 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 130
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ur20v View Post
And after stumbling across the "world-wide DMR net" a few minutes ago, I now know why. Yeesh.
Is everyone going digital, and using internet instead of airwaves?
__________________
_
SonicN
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2017, 12:37 PM
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Davenport,Fl.- home to me and the gators and the skeeters.
Posts: 1,588
Default

I first learned of amateur radio back in about 1950. Quite a few times heard people say that amateur radio was dying. But it's still here.
What website are you referring to that gave you that idea? "And after stumbling across the "world-wide DMR net" a few minutes ago, I now know why. Yeesh."
__________________
Freedom, a beautiful way of life.
Pro-107, Pro-44, Pro-94, Pro-2006, DX-440
FT-2900R, FT-101EE, HTX-202, IIC-2AT, BTX-121, UV-5R, KT-7900D
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2017, 1:00 PM
Member
   
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Loudoun Heights, VA
Posts: 486
Default

I think analog comms are seeing a bit of a resurgence, while all things VOIP are experiencing a bit of a backlash - too much that can go wrong to spoil the experience, probably. As a kid I was involved in playground games during recess that were better organized, had more participants, and were more fun as well as far more interesting than that 'net' I heard earlier. IMHO, of course.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2017, 1:15 PM
iMONITOR's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: MACOMB, MI.
Posts: 5,441
Default

I think amateur radio is just about dead and buried in my area. Equipment is way too expensive, much of it is unnecessarily complicated. Rules and restrictions are well...too restrictive, making practical and fun use almost impossible.

The internet and smart phones pretty much eliminated the need. I know they can be inoperative during certain emergency scenarios. Same goes for Ham radio. During those times, every radio operator wants to be like FEMA and take charge and finding a clear frequency, much less a repeater, or locals even allowing you to 'get in', good luck with that.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2017, 1:37 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,087
Default

The insurgence of folk into dmr due to the (at the time) recent low cost availability of cheap subscribers created a lot of issues for dmr. Codeplug sharing became rampant, and the amount of people who actually understood how the systems worked were quickly overrun by those who didnít causing resource availability issues.

Itís not VoIP or IP connected systems that are causing issues, itís the fact people are making their systems accessible to everything instead of limiting what can and cannot be accessed from a repeater.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2017, 4:05 PM
DaveNF2G's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Rensselaer, NY
Posts: 8,850
Default

Hams are just reflecting the radio industry in general.

Everything you might possibly do in your life has a radio component available or under development. And we are being told that all of these devices need to be interoperable. The unstated assertion is that they will never fail or the power will never go out for long enough to disable them.
__________________
David T. Stark
NF2G WQMY980 KYR7128
ARRL VE & Registered Licensing Instructor
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2017, 5:07 PM
CQ's Avatar
CQ CQ is offline
Member
  Shack Photos
Shack photos
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Exosphere
Posts: 328
Talking Build a Wall and Make Wires-X Great Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCore25 View Post
The insurgence of folk into dmr due to the (at the time) recent low cost availability of cheap subscribers created a lot of issues for dmr. Codeplug sharing became rampant, and the amount of people who actually understood how the systems worked were quickly overrun by those who didnít causing resource availability issues.

Itís not VoIP or IP connected systems that are causing issues, itís the fact people are making their systems accessible to everything instead of limiting what can and cannot be accessed from a repeater.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Tell me about it...

Wires-X was great with Yaesu C4FM and analog transceivers with HRI-200 combos (there are caveats to radios with inputs but if a repeater was connected to Wires-X on analog, everyone could play. The analog part was meant to be inclusive for those not wanting to pay the C4FM toll.

Then came the advent of 'not-so-hot-spots' like sharkrf and the inferior audio/reliability it introduced into the Fusion System. It was all in the name of interoperability because people thought all digital should play nicely with each other. I used to use Wires-X more until the dmr refugees started pouring.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2017, 5:15 PM
mmckenna's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: WTVLCA01DS0
Posts: 9,326
Default

I've only been a ham since the late 1990's, but I've been hearing that since day 1.

Anything new that comes along is "going to destroy the hobby". Doesn't matter what hobby it is, the old timers will always complain about anything new.


Like all hobbies, they change with time and technology. Time for people to accept that. Learn to adapt, or get left behind.

Remember, unless you know how to do 40wpm on a spark gap transmitter while going uphill both ways, in the snow, with only wads of newspaper to protect your feet, you'll always be part of the problem to some.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2017, 5:19 PM
n9mxq's Avatar
Member
  Premium Subscriber
Premium Subscriber
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Belvidere IL
Posts: 1,578
Default

Apparently it's time to beat the dead horse again...

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
__________________
Gene
Is there such a thing as too many radios??
Transceivers, receivers, and SDR! Oh My!
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2017, 5:30 PM
CQ's Avatar
CQ CQ is offline
Member
  Shack Photos
Shack photos
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Exosphere
Posts: 328
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by n9mxq View Post
Apparently it's time to beat the dead horse again...

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
But with an antenna this time.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2017, 5:36 PM
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Davenport,Fl.- home to me and the gators and the skeeters.
Posts: 1,588
Default

I guess many people get or have the wrong opinion of amateur radio. During an emergency, "... every radio operator wants to be like FEMA and take charge ...", just isn't correct. I know many who are not involved with FEMA, or EOCs, etc. They may monitor the ham bands, but generally the AM band radios or TV stations if power is still on. Out of the many hams I know only 3 are involved with the Polk county EOC management.
Rules and regulations have a place and rightfully so. I personally don't want to see the amateur radio band to operate like the CB band! If the rules are too strenuous, then amateur radio isn't the hobby for that individual.
Complicated? Sure, there's many things about amateur radios that are complicated. The frequencies, SAFETY, the laws, what all those dials do on the transmitter and or receiver, etc. If they are too complicated, then it isn't for that individual to be a hobbyist.
Amateur radio was and still is a hobby to experiment. I build many different types of antennas, small transmitters, receivers, etc. You can do all that with the CB radio, except the transmitter side. I've heard some say that the amateur bands have become appliance operators or something of that nature. Will yes to some degree. They are usually the 2 meter and 70 cm operators. BUT I don't have any adverse feelings toward them, because they have found the place to be and are usually a benefit to the rest of us.
"The internet and smart phones pretty much eliminated the need." The need for what? To communicate with others? We've had regular phones for ages and that's where many folks find the best way to communicate. But amateur radios aren't for calling you mom, sister, neighbor, or who every. The radio was used to contact a stranger some where on the earth and get signal reports, radio info, etc. To see how well your newly built transmitter is operating. You don't pick up the phone or smart phone or get on the internet and call randomly to ask how your phone sounds, etc.
The amateur radio has it's place. If you're not satisfied with the rules, law, equipment, etc., then that is not where you belong.
And the amateur radio isn't dying. That's my opinion. If you think other wise, then that is your opinion and you have the right to believe what you want.
Just read mmckenna and Gene's above post and agree with them.
__________________
Freedom, a beautiful way of life.
Pro-107, Pro-44, Pro-94, Pro-2006, DX-440
FT-2900R, FT-101EE, HTX-202, IIC-2AT, BTX-121, UV-5R, KT-7900D

Last edited by KC4RAF; 12-09-2017 at 5:42 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2017, 5:40 PM
Member
   
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Loudoun Heights, VA
Posts: 486
Default

I'm not claiming the hobby is dying or dead or in hospice, but perhaps to the casual outsider listener it may seem like it. When you hear a grouchy old guy pop up on 2 or 3 repeaters give an unintelligible call sign and start barking about clearing the frequency for an important net, and then hearing the clownshow that follows, you can't help and laugh but then quickly feel bad for laughing. If I sponsored a repeater and someone tried tying it up for an hour every Saturday for that mess, I'd put an end to it so quick my own head would spin.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2017, 5:46 PM
mmckenna's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: WTVLCA01DS0
Posts: 9,326
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ur20v View Post
When you hear a grouchy old guy pop up on 2 or 3 repeaters give an unintelligible call sign and start barking about clearing the frequency for an important net, and then hearing the clownshow that follows, you can't help and laugh but then quickly feel bad for laughing.
Unrelated to the topic, but I need to share thisÖ

Sounds like what my wife went through a couple of days ago.

We pretty much stick to a 2 meter simple frequency for our use. I've got a radio in my truck, one in hers, and one at home. The one at home is on all the time, but I've got a CTCSS tone on the receive so we usually only have to hear ourselves when at home.
The radios in the two vehicles are on carrier squelch. (probably the mistake)

Anyway, a few days ago, this local club set up an internet linked radio on the simplex frequency we were using. Suddenly we were having to listen to all the guys playing with the new system. My wife was complaining about listening to these guys talk about what part of their body hurt when they got out of bed that morning, bowl habits, medical appointments, etc. etc. She was not amused. She felt zero inclination to participate in the conversation and in her words, "Really didn't want to hear that stuff".

I know the answer is to change frequency. And we likely will, however the newness of the toy has either worn off, or they moved it to another frequency, because we've been spared the morning health reports the last few days.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2017, 6:10 PM
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Davenport,Fl.- home to me and the gators and the skeeters.
Posts: 1,588
Default

ur20v, it's evident that amateur radio isn't your bag. "I'm not claiming the hobby is dying or dead or in hospice, but perhaps to the casual outsider listener it may seem like it. When you hear a grouchy old guy pop up on 2 or 3 repeaters give an unintelligible call sign and start barking about clearing the frequency for an important net, and then hearing the clownshow that follows, you can't help and laugh but then quickly feel bad for laughing. If I sponsored a repeater and someone tried tying it up for an hour every Saturday for that mess, I'd put an end to it so quick my own head would spin." If you "sponsored" a repeater, you can only request the owner to do something about the net meeting.
Now if YOU owned the repeater, then you can do what you want. Just remember, YOU do not OWN the frequency.
I'm by no means attacking your thoughts; I've heard the grouchy old farts, ( some young ones too ), as you mentioned. Some times it would raise my blood pressure; but what I did was turn the VFO and kept my heart safe! lol
But on a side note, those "nets" some time get pretty interesting, ( some times not ). It just depends who and what.
73
__________________
Freedom, a beautiful way of life.
Pro-107, Pro-44, Pro-94, Pro-2006, DX-440
FT-2900R, FT-101EE, HTX-202, IIC-2AT, BTX-121, UV-5R, KT-7900D
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2017, 6:18 PM
Member
   
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Loudoun Heights, VA
Posts: 486
Default

Amateur radio is very much my thing, thank you very much. I've participated in many interesting nets, I'm just bewildered as to why the cluster-f I heard today was clogging up so many repeaters on a day so perfect for rag chewing.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2017, 6:37 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New Orleans region
Posts: 2,496
Default

Ham radio started many years back before any of us were even born. The hobby at that time was taking a bunch of parts you scrounged up and put them together to make a receiver and transmitter. You wound your own coils, un soldered parts to put into your newest concoction. Sometimes it worked and sometimes it didn't.

Back then the old cattle fence wire became your antenna material. Maybe you might be lucky enough to be around when the telephone company was changing their wires that went from insulator to the next pole on another insulator. The wire was hard drawn, so you didn't worry about it stretching. But you may need some pliers to be able to bend it onto an insulator.

There still are a few of us that like to tinker with an old radio. Most of the older radios still use software to program the frequencies into the radios. Problem is these radios use software that was wrote to function with computers that use DOS as the computer operating system. The next problem is that some of the new comers to the hobby here think they are computer experts and try to run this real old software on a computer that is running Windows 10. But they soon learn all their expertise with the new computers is no match for this really old software. We see them complaining that they are having problems trying to run the radio programming software.

Some of these computer experts give up and junk that wonderful radio that was made maybe back in the late 60's or early 70's. I like to take these old radios and make them work the way I want them. Some times it even requires the use of a soldering iron. Now tell me how many of you ham radio operators use a soldering iron to work on the insides of a radio these days?

How about scanning across the HF bands looking for a station that is in a conversation with another ham radio operator talking technical about what ever. All you hear for the most part are a number of so called nets to pass radio traffic. But not one message is passed.

What about the ham radio operator on the HF bands that has his mic gain cranked up so high you can hear him splattering a good 10 Khz. each side of his center frequency. You break in and try to explain that his transmitter is causing interference to others near by. He goes into a rage about he knows what he is doing and has this store bought radio that can't be causing any problems.

Yup the attitude of these appliance operators is driving the newer ham radio operators off the radio. Back a number of years ago ham radio operators would go out of their way to help others on the radio. Now you find the bullies on some frequencies that say they own the frequency and to go some place else.

Back a number of years you could find a radio mentor that would go out of his way to help new comers to the hobby. Today the stuck up snobs you find on the radio would rather push you down a flight of stairs than even consider helping someone. Yup the hobby has changed.
__________________
Jim

Last edited by jim202; 12-09-2017 at 6:42 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2017, 6:37 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 175 DME, HEC 358į Radial
Posts: 5,661
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ur20v View Post
Amateur radio is very much my thing, thank you very much. I've participated in many interesting nets, I'm just bewildered as to why the cluster-f I heard today was clogging up so many repeaters on a day so perfect for rag chewing.
There's a couple of specific problems that converge in your observations. The obvious one is the perceived "lameness" of the topic matter in the net. Well, you can't fix that. It's as old as amateur radio.

The other problem that converges with the first is new, and I think it should be fixed.

There are tons of repeaters out there, pet projects of their owners. Many have been built for the sole reason to be built. They not needed to solve any particular communication problem. So, they sit idle day after day. Now it's possible to link them via internet to an IRLP or Echolink or DMR node to make it seem busier than it would be on its own. Suddenly, it has a "purpose".

It gets down to a matter of whether or not we should do something just because we can. That applies to building useless repeaters, and it applies with redundant coverage of the same IRLP node, or whatever.

In some cases, redundant wide area coverage is the goal, which is a different matter than an internet connection just because we can.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2017, 6:44 PM
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 36
Default

GEEZ!!!! Listen to 80 meters on weekday mornings; I didn't know so many old hams have colon problems Bob N9RMA
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 12-09-2017, 7:03 PM
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Woodlands, MB
Posts: 814
Default

From reading the replies, it seems most perceive that ham radio is VHF/UHF. I think many get their beginner's level license for no other reason than to legally use a Baofeng radio.

Every morning at 8:30 in the morning I get on 80 meters and take part in local round table with stations from three provinces and one state. (I don't have colon problems ) Later in the day I'll head over to 20 meters and do some slow scan TV and some digital stuff (PSK etc). If the bands are open, I'll wade into the pileups and work some DX.

For anyone thinking ham radio is dead, take a listen on the HF bands, (especially 20 meters) during the next ARRL, or CQ contest.

If 6 meters is open, I'll exchange some grid squares there as well.

Then there's weak signal VHF/UHF. I've got a 23 element 432 Mhz Yagi and take part in a local round table most Wednesday nights on 432.100 Mhz SSB. When tropo is good, I'll work down into the states using SSB and CW. The guys I chat with are die hard weak signal operators and many do moon bounce. One of them has managed to make a moon bounce QSO on 47 Ghz.

And of course, there's FM, DMR and D-Star. I have radios for those modes as well, although most of my operating is on HF.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 5:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All information here is Copyright 2012 by RadioReference.com LLC and Lindsay C. Blanton III.Ad Management by RedTyger
Copyright 2015 by RadioReference.com LLC Privacy Policy  |  Terms and Conditions