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Old 05-24-2017, 8:57 PM
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Default DOA AOR AR-DV1

So I've had my AOR AR-DV1 for about an hour now. (I know I'm going to get the lectures from people on buying it from overseas - so let's please just pretend we did that and get it over with.)

Upon startup - everything looks fine - no audio.

Reset. No audio.

Full reset. No audio.

External speaker -- No audio.

Headphones... Very very very quiet audio. (So receive is working; there's just something wrong in the audio amplifier section it seems.)

Have carefully looked under the top cover to see if the speaker became disconnected in shipping. No joy. (Box wasn't roughed up or anything; looked completely new.)

Just wondering if anyone at all has any suggestions before I have to declare this a $1250 brick, since I know AOR won't repair these units in the US under any circumstances.

(Again, those chuckling at my expense need not apply; I get it already.)
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Old 05-24-2017, 9:06 PM
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Did you check the volume level ? . Mute?
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Old 05-24-2017, 9:45 PM
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Volume level on the display travels all the way up to 100 with no audio.. Checked squelch (it's on NSQL mode) - still no audio with squelch at 0 and volume at 100. Thing is if I plug in headphones I hear reception very faintly; even turned up to 100 it's just a whisper of audio from the headphones.

Never even a peep or keybeep sound (keybeep is set to 7 out of 7) from the speaker. Tried external speaker, too -- no go.

I wouldn't think mute would or could persist through two full resets; is there a mute function on this radio? (I don't think that's it... but of course i'm willing to try anything at this point...)

Also just did a firmware update... No change.

Last edited by aryntha; 05-24-2017 at 9:51 PM..
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Old 05-25-2017, 3:56 AM
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Default Hi

The BEEP audio is a concern, and probably indicates a fault.

Please try setting the Squelch to LSQ with Squelch at zero and test re signals.

I understand the difficulties I assume the Radio was bought from a Dealer, as New? Even an overseas Dealer should be prepared to refund the postage costs eventually if you return the AR-DV1 and they confirm it is faulty.

Cheers
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Old 05-25-2017, 6:49 AM
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Aryntha,

One point seems not to be mention in all of those discussion.
Does [B] reversed video is display on left side of the S-meter?
This means also Squelch Open.

Have you performed some basic test in FM/200khzIFBW, ? I guess yes.

What is your firmware version?

Concerning the fact to return you DV1 to your seller, depending on the country regulation, the return fees had to be paid by the Customer to the dealer. Dealer to Customer could be free.

Cheers
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Old 05-25-2017, 11:03 AM
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Default Some other things

Quote:
Originally Posted by marlbrook View Post
The BEEP audio is a concern, and probably indicates a fault.

Please try setting the Squelch to LSQ with Squelch at zero and test re signals.

I understand the difficulties I assume the Radio was bought from a Dealer, as New? Even an overseas Dealer should be prepared to refund the postage costs eventually if you return the AR-DV1 and they confirm it is faulty.

Cheers
Assuming the above fails, then contact the Retailer.

Naturally you would have to pay initially to return the AR-DV1.

However if it is established the Radio was faulty, then as I said any Retailer with scruples should refund your postage costs, although as you presumably bought it from another Country that could not be enforced.

If you paid by Credit Card you may have some leverage.

I do understand why you were attracted to an 'unrestricted' AR-DV1,

I might well have done the same, however I can say with some confidence that the U.S. restrictions are really not worth worrying about.

The Cellular one is just an archaic left over from the old Analogue days of Mobile Phones. For a long time now they have been digital and encoded, so you will not be able to listen to anything worthwhile on those frequencies.

As to the Radio's de-scrambler functions, to be honest they are next to useless since virtually all Digital encryption is not catered for. You might stumble across some analogue simple voice inversion scrambling that the AR-DV1 can correct, but even that is most unlikely. The Digital de-scrambler in the AR-DV1 is, they say, only for use on one form of 'simple' encryption used in Japan.

I have an unrestricted AR-DV1 here in the U.K., and know that the above is pretty accurate.

It is entirely your decision, naturally, but why not consider returning the Unit to the supplier, after contacting them of course. Ask for a full refund for the Radio and your costs, then buy one from the U.S., not because of AOR's rules, just from your own peace of mind in the future.

You know all about AOR's policy regarding repairs. I think it is just an excuse for them to wriggle out of doing a local repair, and they could no doubt quickly re-program any Radio bought overseas to match the U.S. restrictions, but we are stuck with that.

In any case, if, as I assume the Radio was bought from a Retailer who said it was 'new', your first recourse is to get them to put things right, not AOR. In many Countries it is the Retailers initial responsibility. In the long run there would be less delay by insisting on a refund.

Anyway, good luck, and I hope it all works out for you.
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Old 05-25-2017, 3:04 PM
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Thank you guys, and thank you for not admonishing me as some have;

Yes, LSQ is set at zero; IFBW is 200khz on FM Broadcast; I've tried known good Narrow FM requencies as well. The S meter does move when a signal is found, so it is receiving - but no audio. I'll check on the [B] indication later tonight, but I think the answer to that also is yes.

Firmware when received was 1611B, I tried upgrading to 1702D on the long-shot that it may fix the problem; the firmware update went fine but still no audio output.

I do understand that there is 'nothing there' in the blocked segments; and I do admit that it's purely a psychological salve when purchasing a $1250 radio, I want it to be "complete", regardless of the utility -- but I do fully understand that it's not necessarily rational. And next time around (if there is one) it'll likely be the "proper" version from Universal Radio, but, unfortunately now I'm stuck with this dilemma as-is.

AOR not performing the repairs is annoying; people do indeed move from the UK to the US, for example, with their possessions intact! I find it odd that AOR is so zealous about an outdated and useless law that is highly unlikely at this stage in the radio game to ever be enforced, unless the violator was also a time traveller.

I've contacted the retailer, who is well-rated and well-reviewed; but so far I have not heard much back beyond "It's late here, we will contact you tomorrow" - so owing to time zones, I need to wait for that. It certainly isn't helping my anxiety on the matter.

I suppose I also could speak to AOR without indicating the source of the radio for a phone tech consultation, but at this point I doubt phone troubleshooting is going to fix it.

I did buy it on a credit card, so I do suppose that is an option if it goes that far.

Thanks, and hopefully not too long from now I'll return here to talk about the signals i'm decoding, versus an expensive and fancy looking brick.
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Old 05-26-2017, 9:01 AM
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I realize this doesn't address your problem, but I thought it best get it on record that I experienced the same issue!
I purchased my radio from HRO who had it drop-shipped from AOR in California. There was no audio. Period. Got in touch with HRO (very responsive) who had a new radio swapped. No issue with the new one.
I hope this doesn't become an issue for anyone else.
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Old 05-27-2017, 8:38 PM
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That's... interesting. I hope it isn't endemic.

I'm still fighting with the seller, who seems to be feeding me a bunch of lines and stalling...

I've traced down the source of the problem, but can't really seem to figure out more without a schematic. (Fat chance of that, I'm sure.)

The audio amplifier chip is a 5w OnSemi LA4425A. It's pretty readily available and isn't obscure; and (good thing) its claim to fame is relatively few external passives to make it work.

I was hoping maybe it's something I could just swap. But the problem isn't the chip.

The LA4425A requires 13.5v on pin 5. In my radio, pin 5 is cold. Dead. 0v. So, that's a "Well, there's your problem" moment.

Was hoping I could trace (or even find) that 13.5v source... No such luck. It seems that this is a 6 or 8 layer board, and the 13.5v seems to originate from a buried trace and buried via.

There's a 220uF electrolytic to ground; that's not shorted but also doesn't have any voltage. (And is likely just filtering.)

There's also a SOT23 P-channel MOSFET (Marked 'SP', likely BSS84) where the drain is attached to the 13.5v line which goes to Pin 5 of the LA4425A; and which is getting ~4.3v on the gate, which tells me the source->drain channel should be 'off' as it stands. I was hoping that this was the switch for the 13.5v source, but there's no voltage on the source either. (?)

Damn. Confused.

If I had a schematic, I could probably trace this down to a bad passive.

AOR won't service it; but I wonder if Taka at AOR USA would be willing to at least help... Probably not....

THECOP: How long as yours been working since replacement?
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Old 05-27-2017, 9:24 PM
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Hello,

I looked at the schematic of a AOR AR8600 that uses a similar LA4525 for audio. In the AR8600 there is a three terminal 9 volt regulator that is only used for the LA4525. I doubt they are running the chip in the AR-DV1 at 13.6V. There is likely a number of voltage regulators used and it is possible one of them has a problem.

One thing you can try is record audio to the SD Card and see if you get anything.

73 Eric
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Old 05-27-2017, 10:39 PM
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(Deleted, double post)

Last edited by aryntha; 05-27-2017 at 11:25 PM..
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Old 05-27-2017, 11:24 PM
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Eric, thanks very much for this lead;

The radio *does* indeed record audio to the SD; (local FM station) so it is receiving.
I'm even seeing unamplified audio input on pin 1 of the LA4425A - so its close....

Do you know where I could find the schematic of perhaps even that section on the AR8600? Or even the part number or appearance of that regulator? Does it appear to be anything like what I've traced out below?

That does make sense; I've traced out what I can of the circuit around the LA4425, but I don't have the expertise to make sense of it...I'm seeing +5V into a circuit made up of three SOT23s.

The entire circuit appears to be fed by +5v, of course I might have gotten something wrong here, and may be missing another voltage source that's "dead" upstream. It seems odd that +5v would be boosted to +9v when higher voltages are available for the LA4425...

It's hard to tell if all three of these parts are regulators, and if they are, which one is the primary culprit (I'm guessing the one marked 'SG' which some data sheets say could be a BSS84 P-channel MOSFET, but I'm guessing that may be wrong at this stage...)

LA4425 is very simplistic - http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/EN3309-D.PDF .. amazing that this is where the failure point seems to be; supply voltage to this part.


Any insight anyone would have would be... very much appreciated.
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Last edited by aryntha; 05-27-2017 at 11:31 PM..
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Old 05-27-2017, 11:57 PM
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Seems the SR2000 also uses the LA4425A but is fed in a straightforward manner; just a voltage regulator from the DC input dropped down to 10V.

as EricCottrell mentioned the AR8600 seems to use an LA4525 fed by 9V and a regulator.

I am guessing I'm looking for 9-10v in the situation above but I'm not seeing anything but 5v feed the circuit above...

So looks like these devices are

"LG" = 2sc4116 npn , hFE rank G (200 to 400)
"SG" = 2sa1162 pnp, hFE rank G (200 to 400)

So this looks like it's the updated layout of the circuit... (Honestly, journaling all this here in case someone else out there has this problem.. Haven't found the solution yet.. but still good to share... If mine wasn't the first AR-DV1 to fail this way, since TheCop had a bad one too... it likely won't be the last.)
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Last edited by aryntha; 05-28-2017 at 1:19 AM..
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Old 05-28-2017, 1:58 AM
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Though thinking further, this seems really weird to me. Maybe there -is- a "10v supply" that's dead coming from somewhere else, on the middle layer of that board -- and these three transistors have nothing to do with the LA4425A's supply... It just seems strange that AOR would use such an highly integrated single-chip amplifier that's reason for existence is "low external part count", but get it its supply voltage in such a convoluted way....

..So I may be barking up the wrong tree here... and it may not be possible to solve this without the service manual and schematic.
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Old 05-28-2017, 9:53 PM
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Hello,

I have a AOR AR-DV1 that works, so I can make some voltage measurements tomorrow.

Looking at the circuit, I have a gut feel that there is more components connected to the junction of the 10 ohm, 4.7K and 100uF cap. This looks like some sort of regulator circuit with the 5 volt line used to control it. The two 4.7K resistors look like a voltage divider. The SG transistor looks like a pass transistor and the supply voltage path would go through the 10 ohm resistor and SG.

73 Eric
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Old 05-28-2017, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricCottrell View Post
Hello,

I have a AOR AR-DV1 that works, so I can make some voltage measurements tomorrow.

Looking at the circuit, I have a gut feel that there is more components connected to the junction of the 10 ohm, 4.7K and 100uF cap. This looks like some sort of regulator circuit with the 5 volt line used to control it. The two 4.7K resistors look like a voltage divider. The SG transistor looks like a pass transistor and the supply voltage path would go through the 10 ohm resistor and SG.

73 Eric
Thanks, Eric.

That would be... really appreciated... I'm guessing that voltage isn't coming in at one of these points, and it should. If I can trace that back on the board, it could maybe be at least narrowed down.

I showed the diagram to a buddy and he came to a similar hunch (but not nearly as much detail): Linear regulator with a voltage divider, with input at one of the electrolytic caps.

I don't want anyone to risk their radios but, measurements from a working one would be amazingly appreciated... I can't help but think that this is a simple fix once it can be located.... plus if it's happened twice, maybe we can save some other folks some heartache.

I have a feeling that a lot of what's going on here is on a middle layer of the board though... but that may also be an issue of an (ugh, lead free temperature) reflow...

Thanks a lot.

Last edited by aryntha; 05-28-2017 at 11:08 PM..
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Old 05-29-2017, 6:18 PM
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maby its in TETRA DMO mode ?

Set mode to AUTO
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Old 05-29-2017, 8:08 PM
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Hello,

I got a chance to measure the voltages on my AR-DV1. The board layout is different on mine, but the component numbering is the same.

The LA4425 Pin 5 reads 13.59 volts and the junction of the 10 ohm, 4.7K and 100uF cap reads 10.2 volts. So it appears the regulator circuit is taking the 13.59 volts and turning it into 10.2 volts.

I probed around and the 13.59 volts does not seem to be coming from the DC Input or after the polarity protection diode. There is a shielded portion of the board nearby that looks like the DC-DC power converters. I had to be careful putting the cover back on. The reflections off the cover made it difficult to determine if the cover went into the middle of the clips and not off to the side.

I suspect the DC Input just feeds the DC-DC converter. Unfortunately it will be difficult to troubleshoot the DC-DC converter without a schematic.

I seem to remember someone getting an unblocked AOR AR-DV1 fixed by sending it to AOR Japan. You might inquired about it with them.

73 Eric
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Old 05-30-2017, 1:11 AM
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I had to get the dealer i got my radio from to have my ar-dvd repaired. My tuning knob messed up on mine. Dealer set up repairs, I sent it to the repairnshop which was in Hong kong. Thet was in janurary 2016, and I finally got my radio back July 2016. Repair shop sent my radio to the dealer, and I got it back from the dealer. It cost me about $80 to send it for repairs. Repairs was free, and dealer paid for shipping back to me . I hope I don't have go through that again.
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Old 06-01-2017, 2:29 AM
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Well, thanks everyone -- spent hours tonight trying to trace the circuit more.

No 13.x volts anywhere, no 10.x volts anywhere.

Then I made another (unfortunate) discovery. The Vcc line of the audio amp seems to be shorted to ground. I cannot find any obvious reason why this is. I tried removing one leg (temporarily) the 2200uF capacitor, no change.

I suppose it's possible that the LA4425A may be shorting its own Vcc to ground but that sounds very odd. I searched all night and couldn't find any obvious component that could be doing this.

The board also seems to be 4 layers, and the solder is a much higher temperature solder than even normal RoHS/leadfree stuff; so it's dicey.

Other concern is that if there is some short to ground, the upstream VRM somewhere may be baked, as well, even if I can find what's removing the short.

Pretty discouraged... hoping the seller does something (He says he's gonna send another one and have me send this one back but so far... no reply.)

If I ever do end up getting a working one ... has anyone had experience with these failing after a while? I hope not.
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