Problem with RWC - Scottsdale site

[W2SJW]

Guys,

Out here for a few days at the Fairmont Princess, and I have my 396XT with me. I'm having no issues with the PHX 'A' & 'B' sites, but the Scottsdale site on 771.84375 will not stay locked-on at all (but does show signal on the s-meter). Amazingly, I'm getting the Tempe site just fine (and copying traffic with no issues).

Any idea if my location has something to do with it? As I mentioned, all the other sites I set up are working great, even the MCSO.

 

[jpolich7]

Just found your 2012 post while researching why I am getting nothing on Simulcast H Scottsdale. Did you ever solve the mystery? Thanks.

 

[W2SJW]

Never solved it, and I no longer have the 396XT. My wife & I vacation out there a lot, so when I come out next with my 436HP, hopefully things will have changed...

 

[mm]

I spend my time between Portland, Scottsdale and Prescott and recently for Scottsdale the only way I had success was if I had #1.Thompson Peak high, #2. Tempe simulcast F and Scottsdale simulcast H. this was using a rtl dongle and the unitrunker plugin.

 

[cmaness2001]

What happened to Scottsdale South?

They used to come booming in on simulcast F (3401). Did they go to H?

 

[Kars10az]

3401 is, or was, just on F. 3402 is, or was, on B, M and H.
I have not heard a single transmission on H on any TG in months. I have it on my scanner searching H for anything, and I haven't logged a single thing. I'm wondering if H was taken down or if they moved the transmitters or lowered the power. I'm in Tempe and never had a problem hearing H. HMMM!

 

[jpolich7]

Interesting to hear that youall are having trouble receiving Scottsdale. I have similar problems, even though I live midway between north and south Scottsdale radio dispatch zones. My experience on

SIMULCAST H
--Phoenix Fire dispatch 1794 and Scottsdale Fire tac channels like K7 and K11. 90 percent intelligible, un-garbled.
--Scottsdale Police north dispatch 3402. 50 percent intelligible, partially garbled. Gets a bit clearer when scanner is on for hours, scanner learns to decode better, and error rate declines below 10
--Scottsdale Police south dispatch 3401. 5 percent intelligible, almost completely garbled, never improves.

THOMPSON PEAK
---Scottsdale Police North Dispatch 3402. 75 percent intelligible, mostly un-garbled

SIMULCAST F TEMPE
--Scottsdale Police has not been broadcast since earlier this year

These are my results with BCD996XT and BCD396XT, discone antenna 20 feet above ground. (A BCD436HP was returned because it received nothing intelligible on any Regional Wireless Cooperative (RWC) systems, sites, or groups.)

My understanding is that simulcasts, like Scottsdale H, are usually broadcast from a web of half a dozen or more locations. If you are standing under one location, you may receive a clear signal because all the others are distant and weaker. However, if you are located somewhere mid-web, many of the signals may arrive within milliseconds of each other and cancel out each other. Professional-grade P25 transceivers are supposed to sort this out, with the help of sophisticated system adjustments. Present and past generations of scanners rarely succeed at this.

Please pass along any suggestions on improving results!

By the way, two BC780XLT's, a BC72XLT, and a BC355N all work fine receiving VHF of Phoenix Fire dispatch and fire-ground frequencies, along with Salt River Fire, DPS, etc.

P25 problems always raise the question of whether the FCC and emergency services nationwide made the right decision handing a virtual monopoly to Motorola beginning many years ago. If you add up the great number of frequencies that P25 consumes, you begin to wonder if there wasn't already enough spectrum to assign conventional frequencies as needed for public safety. Listen long enough to any system and you'll hear the obviously essential tactical or drug or gang-related frequencies, but you'll also find the wasted chat channels for ordering pizza.

Thanks.

 

[Kars10az]

I don't get anything at all on H with a BCD996 or BCD396 attached to any number of rooftop antennas, all at 20-30 feet. I've tried scanning control channels only as well as plugging them all in there to see what happens. Same results. I used to get H fine several months ago. I suspect they took some of the H-system down when they activated Thompson Peak, but I don't hear 3401 at all now. I still pick up some of the other TGs in Scottsdale from time-to-time, usually on F, most of which are encrypted TGs.

I do get 3402 on F quite frequently, and I occasionally get 3402 on B.

Ed

 

[jpolich7]

Ed:

Fascinating. My best results come when I hold on a single system, site, and group. This reduces the work the scanner has to do and minimizes lost transmissions while the receiver checks other systems, sites, and group. But this is no help when key groups are spread among two or more sites. It's a bit like pre-scanner days when you needed one crystal receiver for each channel you monitored. What's curious is that, unlike Scottsdale Police, Phoenix Fire groups seem to come through just fine, from the same sites.

 

[cmaness2001]

I do get 3402 on F quite frequently, and I occasionally get 3402 on B.
Ed

That's wild, I have never heard SPD North on simulcast F and it's my go-to system with the strongest clearest signals, no multipath problems at all. I have not heard SPD South on it for several days now. (listening from East Mesa).

 

[Kars10az]

I must stand corrected. I must've been hallucinating when I typed the last message. I went back and checked my logs. I have not received 3402 on F. My apologies. I have received 3401 on sites A, B, F, and M. I have only received 3402 on site B and M. The last time I picked up 3401 on H was over a year ago. I just searched my logs for all 3 of my scanners and I haven't heard anything on H for over a year.

 

[rpgaun]

I don't get anything at all on H with a BCD996 or BCD396 attached to any number of rooftop antennas, all at 20-30 feet.
Ed

If you are trying to receive 800 you have to have a really good coax between the antenna & scanner to prevent signal loss. You might even need a preamp to assist the signal depending on how long your run is.

 

[jpolich7]

Thanks, Richard. I will check coax and perhaps replace. Signal strength seems to be ok, based on RSSI about 400 as reported by ARC XT Pro

 

[jpolich7]

Scottsdale, RWC

Thanks to all. I am in the process of monitoring each of the Scottsdale "Simulcast H" physical locations. I used RadioReference to find the call signs and transmitter locations, and FCC.gov to find the licensed frequencies.

I am starting with the Simulacst H location closest to me. It is about three miles away, compared to many miles farther to other Simulacst H transmitter locations. By the way, some of the active frequencies from this location are not listed in RadioReference for the Regional Wireless Cooperative. The location is 3700 North 75th Street, near Osborn, Scottsdale. This is the location of Scottsdale city courts and jail, near Scottsdale Stadium. Here are the frequencies. Control channels are marked by * primary and ** alternate.

000769.09375000
000769.34375000
000769.59375000
000769.84375000
000770.09375000
000770.34375000
000770.59375000
000770.84375000
000771.09375000**
000771.34375000*
000771.59375000**
000771.84375000*
000772.09375000
000772.34375000
000772.59375000

I am entering all these frequencies in the scanner in hopes of improving performance and will report results from this and other transmitter locations here.

 

[wlmr]

You don't sound as if you're aware that all the simulcast sites will be broadcasting on exactly the same frequency at the same time. Simulcast = simultaneously sending the same conversation on the same frequency at the same time from all the simulcast sites. It's somewhere between difficult to impossible to monitor only one of the sites without receiving from at least one more.

Your frequency list is shared by all the Simulcast H sites. The active control channel is simultaneously coming from all the sites transmitters and when a voice channel is assigned it will always come out of all of them on the same frequency.

Knowing all the frequencies is a "nice to know" piece of information but your scanner should be figuring all that out by just listening to the active control channel. Having all the control channels programmed is way more important.

Wlmr

 

[KB7MIB]

I must stand corrected. I must've been hallucinating when I typed the last message. I went back and checked my logs. I have not received 3402 on F. My apologies. I have received 3401 on sites A, B, F, and M. I have only received 3402 on site B and M. The last time I picked up 3401 on H was over a year ago. I just searched my logs for all 3 of my scanners and I haven't heard anything on H for over a year.

There is no simulcast M for the RWC. There's A, B, C, F, G, H, and J. Then there's the IR sites: Quintero (on Carefree Highway west of Lake Pleasant), Towers Mtn, White Tanks, Anthem/New River, Thompson Peak, Mt Gillen (7th Ave & Carefree Highway, aka Far North Mtn), North Mtn, South Mtn, Sacaton Peak and Sky Harbor.

What are you referring to as M?

 

[APSN556]

Ditto on the simu "M" inquiry. Not sure what the heck you're referring to. I've never heard of M. Also (for what it's worth) I can hear certain Fire K decks and All of Scottsdale PD 95% loud and clear on Simulcast H, from 7th St. and Dobbins. I can even hear Scottsdale PD on Simu F and... even B at times.