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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2014, 10:18 AM
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Default RE: surveillance frequencies

with investigative agencies having blackberries and calling in license plate checks to dispatch, why would they have a laptop in their car?
im sure they started moving body wires toward spread spectrum as soon as they realized you could hear them over uhf tv channels (donnie brasco)
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2014, 1:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bailly2 View Post
with investigative agencies having blackberries and calling in license plate checks to dispatch, why would they have a laptop in their car?
im sure they started moving body wires toward spread spectrum as soon as they realized you could hear them over uhf tv channels (donnie brasco)
The computers in their cars do a LOT- they keep the agents/officers in touch with the office and dispatch with their built in GPS, plus images are sent to their laptops via HQ of say, their targets or whatever. There are sooo many things the laptops in officers cars do that your home laptop doesnt, and what a blackberry cannot ever do. Plus, those computers have to be watched by a higher up and database lookups logged, another thing a blackberry cannot do. They can't/won't only use mobiles because just for one little reason, interopability. Can you imagine trying to input hundreds of #s into your phone, and I dont think a phone exists that can broadcast to many users simultaneously so they can all hear.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 07-19-2014, 9:14 AM
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Default Spread Spectrum

Point taken, but Spread Spectrum is not used by most municipal and state agencies. Agencies like to hide this information so if they normally operate their radios in the VHF band the surveillance equipment might be in the UHF band, just never know, its all part of the hunt. If their uniform officers are in VHF the criminal investigators might be in UHF just to throw everyone off. Some might argue that most use VHF, analog or unencrypted digital body transmitters due to commercially available products. Some obtain electronic surveillance authorization to activate these devices and some agencies just use these devices as an officer safety net and fire them up when ever they want to use them.

Unless you are within a block of these transmitters you will not be able to monitor unless of course they are using in .5, 1 or 5 watt in band repeaters in a vehicle or concealed package to extend the range of the actual device. Same for beacon transmitters.

Some body transmitters have a switch to transmit on multiple frequencies, and yes some have been used to transmit through 110w VHF repeaters. Not the smartest move but it has occured. Some agencies just use the devices in conjunction with their agency radios. Others shell out a few bucks to procure dedicated kits that have high end receivers capable of receiving very weak signals.

Yes, spread spectrum and very wide band devices are around, they cant be detected on scanners or most commercially available spectrum monitors. In the advent of the 700 and 800 MHz bands it remains to be seen where everyone is hiding. Happy hunting!
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Old 07-29-2014, 11:56 PM
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Default Surveillance Frequencies

Some of the audio body transmitters are spread spectrum, digital or voice inverted but most of them are not. The majority of them are on VHF once more not all of them. Believe it or not, many of the undercover types are using cell phones with blue tooth, no not kidding. Several manufacturers produce nice little kits with better than average receivers to monitor and record body transmitters. Nevertheless, more times than not officers/agents listen to the wires on standard department radios.

Yes, in band 5 watt repeaters are available, look for frequency spreads of 10 or 15 megs. So a body transmitter operating on 155 MHz might be linked to a repeater located in the trunk of a UC car transmitting in the 170 MHz range.

Its the hunt that's fun.

Have a nice day.
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Old 11-12-2014, 11:12 AM
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i have searched 150-162, 420-490 10 mhz at a time while driving in the car, listened to licensed frequencies for businesses and public safety in my town after hours, business trunked system in wildcard mode, used the signal stalker while driving around town for 4 months, the only surveillance i hear is on 162-174, 406-420, the statewide trunked system, and probably the countywide trunked system since it has 4 talkgroups for the prosecutors, but i can't be sure because they are all encrypted.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 11-13-2014, 1:59 AM
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Originally Posted by ScanXO View Post
And you wonder why they are using more and more encryption? How do you know who is asking?
I agree and don't even think this is an appropriate topic for discussion on this website. I have a number of reasons to say this, the least of which is how various incident communications have been broadcast on feeds and ruining much of the hobby.
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Old 11-13-2014, 9:24 PM
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this topic doesn't have anything to do with broadcastify.com. nothing wrong with discussing this as long as no one posts the frequencies and their uses to the database, its when a frequency is posted to the database that they will likely encrypt.. criminals can use a frequency counter or the close call or signal stalker function on scanners and detect 95 percent or more of surveillance activity from what i can tell here
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Old 11-18-2014, 5:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bailly2 View Post
this topic doesn't have anything to do with broadcastify.com. nothing wrong with discussing this as long as no one posts the frequencies and their uses to the database, its when a frequency is posted to the database that they will likely encrypt.. criminals can use a frequency counter or the close call or signal stalker function on scanners and detect 95 percent or more of surveillance activity from what i can tell here
The OP asked for frequencies and this is what I was calling inappropriate. When people program surveillance frequencies into their scanner feeds that is what is inappropriate as well. You might be right, but I'm still uncomfortable with the discussion of these frequencies.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2014, 10:13 AM
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ok exsmokey
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 11-19-2014, 1:55 PM
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The TOS prohibits feed providers from including surveillance operations. If anyone is aware of any feed that includes them, report them. Don't allow the providers to continue to carry them.

John
Peoria
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Old 11-26-2014, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by KB7MIB View Post
The TOS prohibits feed providers from including surveillance operations. If anyone is aware of any feed that includes them, report them. Don't allow the providers to continue to carry them.
Peoria
I'm glad to hear that. I'm also concerned that if we discuss and list surveillance frequencies within a thread they will be used by people other than radio hobbyists. I think once information is put on the Internet, anyone can find it. This may lead to an incident that does not help our hobby.

If anyone remembers the heinous Dorner incident in southern California (ex cop out for revenge after being disciplined) they might remember that Dorner was holed up in a cabin surrounded by police. The talkgroup those officers were using were available real time via a scanner feed. Dorner was sharp and prepared enough that there is a likelihood he was monitoring the feed via cell phone. Whether or not Dorner was actually doing so is not as important as he did have the capability of doing so. San Bernardino County may have planned to encrypt their communications, or a portion of it, when they began to design their new P25 system. The Dorner incident feed did not help.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2014, 4:40 PM
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It didn't help that SBSO kept their tactical comms on a main dispatch channel, instead of switching over to a tac channel (that is also prohibited by the TOS to be broadcast), and people kept the feeds going. There was a big discussion over the right/wrong of this as well as the unenforceability of the TOS in some cases like this.
But, I've heard Peoria PD do the same thing. They kept hot traffic on ch 1 (clear) and switched regular traffic to ch 3 (encrypted) at times.
So, I think it's going to be an issue for some time to come.
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Old 04-03-2015, 9:32 PM
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Try the federal simplex band 166.5000 - 169.5000. I hit on a frequency that gave me an earfull. heh heh
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2015, 9:54 PM
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In Arizona, not all the federal agencies follow the bandplan. There are still repeater outputs in the 162.000-166.4875 range that is supposed to be repeater inputs only, for example.

John
Peoria
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Old 04-04-2015, 8:35 AM
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There are still many agencies (IMHO 90%) who are still using their original channels, that do not conform to the NTIA standard, the only changes I've seen were the migration to Narrowband, now the slow fight to find frequencies to begin the change to the new formats

Even the UHF is still 50/50 on the 9 Mhz off-set (and there are exemptions to that rule that have been issued by NTIA)

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Originally Posted by cjrjr507 View Post
Try the federal simplex band 166.5000 - 169.5000. I hit on a frequency that gave me an earfull. heh heh
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 09-23-2016, 11:59 PM
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two years later. i have never heard surveillance on someone else's licensed frequency, in 18 years of scanning. past year i have searched 136 to 174, 448 to 512, 769 to 775, 849 to 869, each band for a month, searching 10mhz at a time. and drove around town with my gre psr 800 searching in spectrum sweeper mode with a rooftop antenna, nada.

scanned frequencies used by the township like the road department, school buses, and conventional frequencies used by the state and county before they mostly switched to trunked systems, recorded them 24/7. ..detectives using business frequencies must have been what they did before trunked systems and push to talk cell phones
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Old 09-24-2016, 2:09 PM
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Default Two Years Later

Agree, have not heard any comms of interest on another licensee's frequency. Gut feeling, someday all LEO comms will be encrypted. Postal Inspectors were encrypted back in the early 80's then they went to full time encryption in the early 90's and they still use cell phones lol. Only to be followed by other agencies who flip their encryption on and off probably becaues they use their radios to communicate to the locals in the clear voice mode.

Anyone ever monitor the NFL quarterback helmets? Reportedly they were around the 460 UHF band and used voice inversion which is technically not encryption.

In the mean time, enjoy the hunt, sooner or later we will all be monitoring CB radios and mall cops.
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Old 09-24-2016, 3:13 PM
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NFL ? Yup for Monitor, Decode ? Nope due to Transcrypt Rolling Code encryption
Originally 1 Freq Per Team that the NFL brought the repeaters to the Events.
Then became 1 Pri Freq with a Sec due to sporadic interference. (Mostly from neighboring frequencies or same freq), sometime the NFL would claim intentional, yet the other licensee was there first Then it became 1 Pri and 1 Sec but both with Two different DPL's (One for QB the other for Defense), now it's DMR (TRBO)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZDon View Post
Agree, have not heard any comms of interest on another licensee's frequency. Gut feeling, someday all LEO comms will be encrypted. Postal Inspectors were encrypted back in the early 80's then they went to full time encryption in the early 90's and they still use cell phones lol. Only to be followed by other agencies who flip their encryption on and off probably becaues they use their radios to communicate to the locals in the clear voice mode.

Anyone ever monitor the NFL quarterback helmets? Reportedly they were around the 460 UHF band and used voice inversion which is technically not encryption.

In the mean time, enjoy the hunt, sooner or later we will all be monitoring CB radios and mall cops.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2016, 4:35 PM
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A couple of days ago, I was searching through the VHF Low public safety allocation. I caught what may have been a surveillance op on 47.280.
I don't know if it was skip, or local, but I did hear mention of turning left on "four three". 43rd Ave, maybe?
Again, it could have been skip from another state, but who knows?

John
Peoria
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Old 09-26-2016, 10:50 PM
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The easiest way to hear surveillance right now in the valley is to listen to the interop talk groups on the South Mountain RWC site. Agencies working together to take someone down often operate in the clear. Simulcast A covers Phoenix quite well, so I would be amazed to hear that PPD officers used some other system. Why would they? They have more encrypted talk groups than unencrypted already. MCSO and Scottsdale PD were running surveillance in the clear just a few years back, but that's a thing of the past. DPS detectives mostly use the YRCS which has great coverage. AZFIDT used the APS TRS for a while, but that went dead a few years back. Most agencies are using encryption for hot calls, so of course all tactical stuff is encrypted.

I agree with the comment earlier that ALL police traffic will be encrypted in the future, so enjoy the hobby while it still exists.
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