Split Phoenix Regional Fire Dispatch Among Different Talk Groups?

[jpolich7]

I'm curious whether any of you familiar with the regional dispatch center for Phoenix Metro Area fire departments know if they ever tried splitting dispatches among geographic areas. (Not talking about the old days, just the period since the launch of the RWC.)

I ask because in other parts of the country, many central dispatch centers use different channels for different areas. FDNY comes to mind, which has separate alarm dispatch channels for Manhattan, Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens, and combines Staten Island with one of these. There is also a Citywide channel that announces working fires and greater alarms. Adjoining borough dispatchers also coordinate. (EMS operates on an entirely different radio system.)

Around Phoenix, the regional alarms are virtually continuous during busy periods and seem close to impossible to listen to, not just for scanner listeners but for fire crews.

Would separate north, south, east, west dispatch talk groups work here, or have they been tried?

Thanks.

 

[KB7MIB]

I don't know if they have ever tried it before.

At the station, the station radio is usually muted until a dispatch for 1 or more of the units quartered in that station is sent out, so they don't hear any of them, until the station package opens up, or they manually unmute the station radio for some reason. The station radio will re-mute after a set time, I believe, so any units not on that dispatch don't have to hear all of the following dispatches.

When out of the station, yes, they hear all of the dispatches, but a call for that unit will sound an alert tone on their radios, so they know that particular call is for them.

Us hobbyists just have to deal lol

John
Peoria

 

[n0doz]

It may seem chaotic, but it's actually quite orderly. The hardest part is learning the apparatus numbering system. Having listened to multiple radios for work for years, I appreciate that the vast majority of fire calls are all going out on one frequency. Takes some getting used to, but it's worth it to have all of them in one place for monitoring.

 

[E5911]

Splitting dispatching channels

In a sense they actually do split the channels. Station notification is conducted on one frequency but the call is handled on a geographically assigned channel based on the dept responding and where the incident lies in the county. Command and tactics are handled by That dispatcher . Staffing varies such that depending on the day or time of the day, there may be 4 telecommunicators handling the 12 channels (3 each) or 6 or 12 plus a Channel 1 dispatcher and a Supervisor. The K deck Channels are set up as a duplicate of the VHF, but I think they can function either separately or patched.

A similar system is used in LA County , a notification channel, numerous Tactical Radio Operator Channels and various Tactical Channels.

After various fatalities on the fireground, best practices were developed such that all tactical operations had a dispatcher on the other end of the radio. Not every dept does it this way, but many do.

 

[KB7MIB]

IIRC, LA City FD has 2 dispatch channels, 1 for the main part of the city, and 1 for the Valley in the north part of the city.
The CDF splits Riverside County into East and West areas, and has 2 dispatch channels, 1 for each area.

The OP is asking why the Phoenix FD RDC doesn't do something similar with their dispatch channels, splitting the vast region it covers between 2 or more dispatch channels.

I don't know if it's something that has ever been considered, or if it would even work.

John
Peoria

 

[jpolich7]

Thanks to all for their comments

Seems that Phoenix considers all the talk groups other than A1 Dispatch as tactical fire ground channels for incidents, rather than as geographic channels for all calls within an area-- say A3 West Phoenix or A11 Scottsdale.

If there are two major incidents in Scottsdale, dispatch moves one of them to another talk group. Because all are considered fire ground tactical channels, that would explain why initial dispatches for Scottsdale are not broadcast on A11 where they might interfere with operations at a working fire. I guess I was expecting Scottsdale alarms to be broadcast on both A1 and A11.

And there does not seem to be a fire tone out system for individual cities/stations/units, except for Sky Harbor and some outlying towns.

This is different from a lot of jurisdictions, but I understand that it evolved from lapses in handling firefighter mayday traffic in past decades.

It would either be easier or more complicated-- do not know which-- if geographic talk groups carried alarms, and different, separate tactical talk groups were assigned to individual incidents by dispatch as needed.

Thanks to all for their comments.

 

[KB7MIB]

I don't know if having multiple geographically assigned dispatch channels/talkgroups would work or not, but otherwise, incidents are assigned geographically to a VHF analog conventional NFM simplex tactical channel (fire/hazmat) or a P25 trunked talkgroup (EMS/other), depending on the nature of the call and the location within the region covered by the RDC. (There are primary assignments, as well as secondary assignments in the event that 2 or more major incidents occur at the same time in the same area, to help prevent the communications from those incidents from interfering with each other, as well as to lessen the load on the tactical radio operator who is monitoring the incident.)

John
Peoria

 

[WIS262]

Geographical wouldn't work. We created a borderless system. If Scottsdale Alarms only went out on, say A11, then the closest phoenix station wouldn't hear it if they were out and about.

All outgoing dispatches on K1/A1. Unless you're assigned to an incident, you're on K1/A1.

If you need to communicate to the alarm room & not assigned to an incident, you clear on K2/A2 (in coming).

All other TAC channels are for active incidents based on volume and location. All manpower on a company have a portable radio. On a routine incident, most leave 1 radio on K1/A1 incase something 'big' kicks out. Another radio on PD TAC Channel (if needed) and the others on Fire's TAC Channel.

 

[jpolich7]

Thanks for the input. So if I'm interested in monitoring fire traffic for a particular area or department, I could just leave a receiver on the VHF fire ground tactical channel usually assigned-- say A11 for Scottsdale. Likewise, talk group K7 for East side medical calls. This should catch most nearby traffic-- except when jobs are assigned to other channels/talk groups.

Also, I would like to monitor greater alarms when they are broadcast to all units, but have been unsuccessful getting fire tone out to trigger on this. Can anyone confirm the correct single long tone pitch used by Regional Dispatch Center for these "all call" transmissions?

Thanks.