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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2006, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laggroup
Some of that information is department sensitive and not for public consumption. If you listen long enough, you will figure out what everything means on your own.

For instance, listen to a dispatcher send out a call and pretend you didn't know 10 codes.

Car 8, I have a 10-16 going on at 123 Anywhere street. The male half is outisde and the 10-17 has locked herself in a room. She says he owns some possible 10-32's, some automatics.


So, what is going on? Pretty easy to read through it. If you want to know what unit numbers are what, listen closely. Detectives will be doing one thing. Chief officers will be doing something else. District cars will only work in certain areas that you can figure out by quanitfying their calls versus a map. You will figure it out, so listen.
Hmmm, sounds like someone is on the fasttrack to becoming a young whacker, What do you think? Lag Group? Asking lots and lots of questions, Hmmm *Laughs*
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2006, 11:29 AM
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hey landon,

My hometown's police department uses plain speech most of the time, with a few exeptions: J2=intoxicated; J8=DOA; Code 2= meal break; Code 23=sensitive info, some others...

Patrol call signs just go along with shift and district, while other divisions have letter prefixes, like I for investigations, G for gang task force....

There's lots of dispatching forums online; check those out if you're really interested in the variations of department codes and IDs.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2006, 11:32 AM
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About using 10 codes while calling the police:

1. If you're an off-duty cop or dispatcher, it might be second nature... the first thing that rolls off your tongue..... hopefully the department you're calling has the same codes as you.

2. If you're just a citizen..... then you might have some issues.... i believe they call that "wannabe" :-) Seriously, there's a lot of goofy people out there- just go to a police/dispatch testing orientation! haha
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2006, 1:00 PM
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Moved to CA forum.

Landon, please stop posting specific type questions in the general forum.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 11-04-2006, 1:34 PM
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The SO I used to work at our unit designators came from the sub
stations for example Kleinpeter units use the letter K and a 3 digit
number. Scotlandville designators are S and Central C with the 3 digit
numerical. Detectives use D with 2 digit numerical, Traffic uses T.
While the newly opened Burbank substation uses the letter K because they are in the southern part of the Parish and the units
assigned to Kleinpeter have grown so much that Burbank uses the
letter K as a callsign. The NOPD has a number system that I like.
like first district units are in the 100's while second district uses 200's
and so on.
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Old 11-04-2006, 7:24 PM
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As a dispatcher, I stop citizens or "unfamilar" outside agencies from using ANY codes. I will tell them straight up not to use codes unless I know for a fact what their code represents ( local outside agency ). I will make ANY citizen and security officer use plain english. The last thing I need to do, is get in front of a jury and explain that I assumed the citizen knew what the radio codes meant.

Based on my personal experience, the most confused radio code is CODE 4.

"Stable" versus "Cancel Response"

That's a big, big difference.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 11-05-2006, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w4rez
I always thought that the use of codes in off the air conversation sounded kinda silly
In college one of the most annoying things a friend of mine used to do is to say "10-9" everytime he meant to say "what?". That gets old in a hurry.
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Old 11-05-2006, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antfreq
Based on my personal experience, the most confused radio code is CODE 4.

"Stable" versus "Cancel Response"

That's a big, big difference.
Have you been up to Redding, antfreq??? They do "Code 4" one better (or worse) than I've ever heard anywhere else:

Code 4A - Situation Stable, no further assistance needed
Code 4B - Situation NOT Stable, continue assistance

I got a first-hand view of those two codes causing confusion - and could easily have caused injuries or? - one night on Placer St. by the old post office. I was stopped waiting for a train to pass, and some big drunk kid came up and smacked a couple waiting cars with his skateboard. Another driver and I sat him down and called for RPD.

A lone officer showed up, and when he tried to cuff the guy, he resisted; well cop and drunk get into a brawl and go on the ground. The ofcr keyed his mic to try to ask for assistance, but apparently all the dispatcher heard was "Code 4..." She must have asked him five times "was that Code 4A or Code 4B?" By then we had helped him get the guy under control, but there was one REALLY pissed cop, blaming the radio and the dispatcher, when IMHO the fault really lay with having exactly opposite meanings to two codes that differ by only one syllable.
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Old 11-05-2006, 12:45 PM
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All I can say, is that has to be one of the worst radio codes I have ever heard.



Quote:
Originally Posted by hmarnell
Have you been up to Redding, antfreq??? They do "Code 4" one better (or worse) than I've ever heard anywhere else:

Code 4A - Situation Stable, no further assistance needed
Code 4B - Situation NOT Stable, continue assistance

I got a first-hand view of those two codes causing confusion - and could easily have caused injuries or? - one night on Placer St. by the old post office. I was stopped waiting for a train to pass, and some big drunk kid came up and smacked a couple waiting cars with his skateboard. Another driver and I sat him down and called for RPD.

A lone officer showed up, and when he tried to cuff the guy, he resisted; well cop and drunk get into a brawl and go on the ground. The ofcr keyed his mic to try to ask for assistance, but apparently all the dispatcher heard was "Code 4..." She must have asked him five times "was that Code 4A or Code 4B?" By then we had helped him get the guy under control, but there was one REALLY pissed cop, blaming the radio and the dispatcher, when IMHO the fault really lay with having exactly opposite meanings to two codes that differ by only one syllable.
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Old 11-05-2006, 9:39 PM
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I had an interesting experience with radio codes, when I moved out of state for a new job.
Here in SoCal, "211" means armed robbery. Turns out in Montana, "211" means something like "all clear, no wants or warrants." Of course I didn't know that at the time, so I was left wondering what kind of place I had moved to with about 20 "211"s in the first half hour I had the scanner on. I figured it out eventually, but it's a valid point, that officers from different departments might wind up working together under circumstances of terrorist attack or natural disaster, and get very confused over codes. I recently visited Grays Harbor, WA, where they seem to have abandoned codes altogether. It didn't seem to hamper communications at all.
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 11-05-2006, 11:30 PM
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211 is the California Penal Code for Robbery. Though not a radio code, officers and dispatchers usually voice some calls as the penal/vehicle code of which the crime is.

459 is the penal code for burglary
10851 is the vehicle code for Vehicle theft


"10851 just occurred at 123 Main street...suspect took the victims vehicle ..."
"211 just occurred at the McDonalds on Main st ..."
"459 occurred overnight at 123 Main street..."
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Old 11-06-2006, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pfish
10851 is the vehicle code for Vehicle theft
This California Vehicle Code (CVC) section is "theft and unlawful taking or driving a vehicle," which could also include "joy riding."

"GTA" (grand theft auto), which would be 487(d)(1) - (grand theft) - of the California Penal Code (CPC), is more common where I am.

LAPD uses "Code 37" many times to describe a suspected stolen vehicle, most often when following a suspected stolen vehicle.
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Old 11-06-2006, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotdjdave
"GTA" (grand theft auto), which would be 487(d)(1) - (grand theft) - of the California Penal Code (CPC), is more common where I am.

LAPD uses "Code 37" many times to describe a suspected stolen vehicle, most often when following a suspected stolen vehicle.
You're right, Dave, and I never really noticed it before, but LAPD uses three different expressions on the radio for stolen vehicles:

If the theft just happened it's broadcast as a "GTA just occurred." But when it's a cold call, we call it a "stolen vehicle investigation." A parked or moving vehicle that's been reported stolen is broadcast as "a (possible) Code 37 vehicle." Where they came up with THAT number I haven't a clue.

Same thing with our "Code 30" for a burglar alarm, "Code 12" for a false alarm, and "Code 10" meaning "I want to run a suspect (for wants/warrants)."

But it'll never change. Like many departments, LAPD is a full-fledged member of the "Because We've Always Done It That Way Association."

I say we should go entirely to plain English, with perhaps a few limited exceptions.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2006, 5:39 PM
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Another thing LAPD does not do, that almost ALL agencies do, is use the 10-code.

LAPD never uses 10-code. 10-4 turns into Roger, and 10-8 turns into clear etc...

...to me, that is weird, only because my local agencies seem to over-use the 10-code.

As for agencies that I monitor, LAPD has the LEAST amount of work to do to comply with DHS's request of plain english talk.
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Old 11-09-2006, 8:27 PM
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I know that in Houston and Harris County,Tx. When they are dispatched to a call they acknowledge by saying clear and clear when they have arrived on the call and when the call is complete and
they are about to go 10-8 they again say clear. Now if you are not
familiar with the way they dispatch it would really be confusing. I also know that here in Louisiana every police agency dispatches using
the State Criminal Code. For example if you are arrest a dwi. You
would say that I have stopped a signal 98. The State Code for dwi
is 14:98, same thing for a signal 42 in the Baton Rouge area a signal
42 is another code for armed robbery, while the rest of the state uses
signal 42 as rape. Again the State Code for rape is 14:42. And when
passing info to another agency for a broadcast it could be really
confusing.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 11-09-2006, 9:44 PM
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So even so-called "clear text" or plain English isn't anywhere near as "clear" or simple as the Homeland Security folks might be imagining.

Quote:
Originally Posted by red8
I know that in Houston and Harris County,Tx. When they are dispatched to a call they acknowledge by saying clear and clear when they have arrived on the call and when the call is complete and they are about to go 10-8 they again say clear.
If I'm reading that right, the word "clear" has three completely different meanings just in Houston?
"OK, I've received the call"
"I'm at the scene"
and
"I'm finished."

As far as having received a call/message, in California most agencies use 10-4 to acknowledge it. LAPD says "roger" (a la aircraft-speak). Most folks in Humboldt County (except CHP) say either "roger" or "received." CDF seems to use "affirmative" most of the time.

For arriving at a call, again probably most CA departments use 10-97. Some say "at scene" or "on scene", or "in the area." LAPD says "Code 6" if they're voicing it.

Finishing up a call is often said "10-98" or "10-8" (sometimes both together), or CHP's 11-98. Or LAPD's "clear"

And many agencies use "clear" to indicate that a plate or a person is not wanted.

I think it was either Winston Churchill or George Bernard Shaw, maybe both, who said that "the American and British people were 'divided by a common language.'" Obviously we don't have to cross an ocean to see that we all talk a little differently, sometimes very differently.

It'll be an uphill battle for DHS or anyone else to get everyone to use a common lingo on the radio. APCO did a pretty good job of it in the late 1930s with their "10-codes", but it lasted about 15 minutes before departments around the country started adding their own. Which makes sense, since everyone has somewhat different needs and operational procedures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iepoker
Another thing LAPD does not do, that almost ALL agencies do, is use the 10-code. LAPD never uses 10-code. 10-4 turns into Roger, and 10-8 turns into clear etc...
Correct. In the 1940s they resisted APCO's urging to go to the 10-code, and they've never used the 11- or 900-codes either. A few of the more common "900" codes are used for call-entry in the CAD system, but they are voiced in English... a "921" on the CAD screen becomes a "prowler" when spoken."

Quote:
Originally Posted by iepoker
As for agencies that I monitor, LAPD has the LEAST amount of work to do to comply with DHS's request of plain english talk.
Probably so. But even after 40 years of listening to and speaking LAPD-ese, Humboldt's "received" is starting to sound even more logical to me when you are trying to say, um,... "I received."

I won't get into the issues that can arise if there are military units involved and someone says "repeat" or "cover"... http://www.militarymuseum.org/LARiots1.html (top)

and http://www.leaonline.com/doi/abs/10....327876mp0702_4 (requires a subscription to get more than the abstract)

In many places the fire service is decades ahead of law enforcement when it comes to speaking the same language on the radio. But I suppose that's sort of to be expected, since firefighting is almost always a group effort, and very often involves multiple agencies working together. Law enforcement, on the other hand, is usually individual officers all running around doing their separate jobs. Teaming up and mutual aid happen, but are much less common for them

Last edited by KMA367; 11-09-2006 at 9:51 PM..
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Old 11-10-2006, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antfreq
As a dispatcher, I stop citizens or "unfamilar" outside agencies from using ANY codes. I will tell them straight up not to use codes unless I know for a fact what their code represents ( local outside agency ). I will make ANY citizen and security officer use plain english. The last thing I need to do, is get in front of a jury and explain that I assumed the citizen knew what the radio codes meant.

Based on my personal experience, the most confused radio code is CODE 4.

"Stable" versus "Cancel Response"

That's a big, big difference.
Based on my personal experience, the most confused radio code is CODE 4.

"Stable" versus "Cancel Response"

CODE 4: Situation under control or Open the channel.. I find myself useing Adam, Baker, Charlie, Etc. Over the Phone. it justs happens
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Old 11-10-2006, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio_Lady
You're right, Dave, and I never really noticed it before, but LAPD uses three different expressions on the radio for stolen vehicles:

If the theft just happened it's broadcast as a "GTA just occurred." But when it's a cold call, we call it a "stolen vehicle investigation." A parked or moving vehicle that's been reported stolen is broadcast as "a (possible) Code 37 vehicle." Where they came up with THAT number I haven't a clue.

Same thing with our "Code 30" for a burglar alarm, "Code 12" for a false alarm, and "Code 10" meaning "I want to run a suspect (for wants/warrants)."

But it'll never change. Like many departments, LAPD is a full-fledged member of the "Because We've Always Done It That Way Association."

I say we should go entirely to plain English, with perhaps a few limited exceptions.

Yes, hey bart you suspect got a warant (10-12, 10-29, 10-48)
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Old 11-10-2006, 1:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolarBear25
Based on my personal experience, the most confused radio code is CODE 4.
I would say "10-4" is the most confused or overused radio code. It simply means "acknowledged transmission" or "copy," and nothing more. But you will hear people using it as "yes," "affirmative," "will comply,." and "roger" (which means "received transmission and will comply").


I've heard:

Dispatch: "Unit 1, respond to [location] for a [crime]"
Unit 1: "10-4"

Now technically, Unit 1 is only saying that he/she/they received the message, and nothing more. There is no communication indicating that Unit 1 is going to respond to the call, even though it is probably implied. However, a more accurate response would be "10-4, en route" or something along that line.


I learned my "codes" while with LAPD (which does not use 10-codes at all) in my early days, so 10-codes are not my cup of tea anyway. But for this reason, the over usage and incorrectly used "10-4," makes me despise the whole 10-code system even more.


BTW, LAPD's Code 4 is "in response to an 'all units' call, a code four indicates additional assistance is no longer needed." LAPD also uses variations of Code 4, like Code 4A, which means the same as Code 4, with the added variable "but units nearby should be aware that the suspect is still in the vicinity."
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Old 11-10-2006, 2:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotdjdave
I would say "10-4" is the most confused or overused radio code. It simply means "acknowledged transmission" or "copy," and nothing more. But you will hear people using it as "yes," "affirmative," "will comply,." and "roger" (which means "received transmission and will comply").


I've heard:

Dispatch: "Unit 1, respond to [location] for a [crime]"
Unit 1: "10-4"

Now technically, Unit 1 is only saying that he/she/they received the message, and nothing more. There is no communication indicating that Unit 1 is going to respond to the call, even though it is probably implied. However, a more accurate response would be "10-4, en route" or something along that line.


I learned my "codes" while with LAPD (which does not use 10-codes at all) in my early days, so 10-codes are not my cup of tea anyway. But for this reason, the over usage and incorrectly used "10-4," makes me despise the whole 10-code system even more.


BTW, LAPD's Code 4 is "in response to an 'all units' call, a code four indicates additional assistance is no longer needed." LAPD also uses variations of Code 4, like Code 4A, which means the same as Code 4, with the added variable "but units nearby should be aware that the suspect is still in the vicinity."
Agreed..

What do you use of 10-33 EMRGNCY TRFFC?? Code Red?? And do you use 998 O.I.S. 999 Officer Needs Help??
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