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Old 06-05-2015, 11:33 PM
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Default difference between 10 and 11 meters

Ok aside from 11 meters being cb and no license required and of course the difference in the ppl who operate on the band .
At one time 11 meters was a ham band until the fcc reallocated to the citizens band. but really is there a real difference between 10 meters and 11 meters.
I know the low end of 10 meters is for cw only.
what was 11 meters used for when it was a ham band? and why all the guff about cb operators and ham operators aren't we all in a reality amateur radio operators ?
i mean unless your getting paid for it then you are a professional radio operator.
I don't want to start a debate or piss people off nut just in general terms aren't we really all the same in radio operations.
I don't have my ham ticket but i know all the proper radio operations on hf even though i choose 11 meters as my hobby radio.
I can cw but i just have the time in my job to study for my ham ticket .
But really arent we all the same radio operators and is there really a difference in 10 meters and 11 meters.
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Old 06-05-2015, 11:47 PM
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4 watts vs 1500 watts
AM or SSB vs (well whatever)
40 channelized slots (legally) vs (well anything within band)
..... vs FM repeaters
Absolute pandemonium vs 99.9 % respectful individuals

11 meters would be great if not for the humans that occupy it.
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Old 06-05-2015, 11:58 PM
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you got me on the 4 watts one i you have channelized slots on 10 meters as well unless you on sideband
and the 4 watts thing vs 1500 watts is an fcc thing . this is what i mean what wold be the difference in the band if the ffc let 11 m use 1500 watts ( some ppl are any way ) and according to the ffc rules if you are licensed in any other radio service you can use liner amps on 11 meters . and tbh there's only a couple of channels like 6 and 21 where it is pandemonium. I have hear on some channels some very nice radio ops.
and i hear ppl shooting skip on 10 meters as well . i have just read on these forums that a new ham was being talked down to by older hams . so i think things that go on even on 10 meters.
mainly what i do hear on 10 meters is cw and sideband. i think really the fcc just imposed hard caps on 11 meters when they took it away from the ham band .
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Old 06-06-2015, 12:00 AM
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They relegated 11 to the rubbish bin basically. It's the FRS of HF. It's unfortunate because it could have been much more but there's no way to take the dye out of the water now.

I have nothing against 11. I just don't find it of much use due to the heterodyning of God only knows what if the band is relatively up. Like anything else; it is what you make of it.

10 is only channelized on FM. The rest is whatever you want to do with it although most use 1k steps. I hate those guys that use the .5 and .25s.
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Old 06-06-2015, 12:08 AM
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but in time the dye washes away in the water.and with 11 meters making a come back. which brings me to my initial in the grand scheme of things aren't even on 11 meters in a sense amateur radio operators .
i know a lot of hams that not only started in 11 meters but some still use 11 meters as well. i don't want t piss anybody off . i respect ham ops as well as my friends on the 11 meter side.and really it can be so much more even now but the fcc doesn't really care about 11 meters . but some of us like me who are trying to make the band a better band
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Old 06-06-2015, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwepeter View Post
but in time the dye washes away in the water.and with 11 meters making a come back. which brings me to my initial in the grand scheme of things aren't even on 11 meters in a sense amateur radio operators .
i know a lot of hams that not only started in 11 meters but some still use 11 meters as well. i don't want t piss anybody off . i respect ham ops as well as my friends on the 11 meter side.and really it can be so much more even now but the fcc doesn't really care about 11 meters . but some of us like me who are trying to make the band a better band
I like and use CB occasionally too. It's a good band and has its place, and for local talking it has maybe the best range of any of the unlicensed options. The biggest problem is that it only takes one stinker to ruin the punchbowl, and there's more than one out there on CB.

Things will continue to improve as the current solar cycle cools down. In the meantime... all we can do is try to be civil.
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Old 06-06-2015, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwepeter View Post
but in time the dye washes away in the water.and with 11 meters making a come back. which brings me to my initial in the grand scheme of things aren't even on 11 meters in a sense amateur radio operators .
i know a lot of hams that not only started in 11 meters but some still use 11 meters as well. i don't want t piss anybody off . i respect ham ops as well as my friends on the 11 meter side.and really it can be so much more even now but the fcc doesn't really care about 11 meters . but some of us like me who are trying to make the band a better band
I started there like most did. I got tired of no power and range. Ham stuff opened up all the options of FM clarity, VHF/UHF coverage locally etc...

If you find 11 useful that's great. I just don't see it ever becoming anything more than it is in an age of super computer cellphones and whatever else. It's just not worth the effort for what you get from it.
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Old 06-06-2015, 12:29 AM
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But when all that goes down 11 meters will still be here


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Old 06-06-2015, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by wwepeter View Post
...according to the ffc rules if you are licensed in any other radio service you can use liner amps on 11 meters...
Just curious, what led you to this conclusion? It's been a while since I researched this part of the rules. If a link to the rule is available, I'd like to read more about it.

Thanks,
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Old 06-06-2015, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by wwepeter View Post
But when all that goes down 11 meters will still be here


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True, but so will 160, 80/75, 40, 20, 17, ..........SHF, EHF
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Old 06-06-2015, 12:40 AM
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Hams can legally design, build, and operate their own 10 meter transmitters while CBs must (well, to remain legal anyway) use only equipment certified for use there. By extension, a ham can modify and/or repair their own equipment while a CB radio (to remain certified anyway) must remain as certified and major repairs (think replacing the final vs. replacing a pilot light) must be done by licensed (talking GROL here) individuals. I understand that many CBers don't really care about being 100% legal and the chance of being caught and any action taken against them (unless they do REALLY dumb things to bring attention to themselves) is quite small.
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Old 06-06-2015, 12:50 AM
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I have been a licensed ham for over 20 years. Always get 'peeved' when I hear someone
knock down 11-meter operators, especially other hams. Let me be the first to tell ya not
all hams and Gods gift to radio either. A ways south of me there is a group that does
nothing but use profanity, (all words), throw carriers on others, (2-meters) etc. Most nights
from my location I hear several that use MURS frequencies constantly and they are over a
100 miles away. With all the unused ham freqs available, just don't get it. There is a group
of guy's within a 60 mile radius of me on 11-meters and they a bunch of real good radio
operators. As good as any ham group I have heard. It's how one conducts themselves over
the air and doesn't matter what band you operate on. My 2 1/2 cents.......
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Old 06-06-2015, 12:54 AM
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Propagation is about the same , if not the same. You can shot skip on both bands but one legally and one not which creates the max confusion on 11 meters, I feel. Sure one band has more power available but for some , this does not stop some. The channilized approach on 11 meters is good for quick movements, and some have said it is frs with alittle more power, flexibility of antennas. So locally, 10 is about the same use as 11, though most 10 is ssb and some fm while most 11 is am with a little ssb. Many of us got our start in mobile comms with cb. It was fun, it worked but got embarrasing when the family rode along. Both have a style of radio operations, though I just could not handle the drawl that seemed to be the style on 11 meters. I had friends but lacked the "good buddies" that seemed prevalient on 11 meters. The smokey reports were great but evetually driving more sensiably proved better for gas mileage and so many of the trucks had governers , seemed the interstaTE HAD JUST SLOWED DOWN. If you want to get into 10 meters, there are more than enough ham opperators that will lead you along.
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Old 06-06-2015, 1:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QDP2012 View Post
Just curious, what led you to this conclusion? It's been a while since I researched this part of the rules. If a link to the rule is available, I'd like to read more about it.

Thanks,
i wipped my rule book that came with my radio which i bought last week
95.411 cb rule 11 may i use power amplifiers

in paragraph d
paragraph c of this section does not apply if you hold a license in another radio service which allows you to operate an external rf power amplifier
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Old 06-06-2015, 1:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwepeter View Post
i wipped my rule book that came with my radio which i bought last week
95.411 cb rule 11 may i use power amplifiers

in paragraph d
paragraph c of this section does not apply if you hold a license in another radio service which allows you to operate an external rf power amplifier
RULE 11 - Linear Amplifiers

{A} You may not attach the following items (power amplifiers) to your type-accepted CB transmitter in any way:

[1] External radio frequency [RF] power amplifiers, also called linear amplifiers, or linears; or
[2] Any other devices which, when used with a radio transmitter as a signal source, are capable of amplifying the signal.
{B} There are no exceptions to this rule and use of a power amplifier voids your authority to operate the station.

{C} The FCC will presume you have used a linear or other external [RF] power amplifier if-

[1] It is in your possession or on your premises; and
[2] There is OTHER EVIDENCE that you have operated your CB station with more power than allowed by CB Rule 10.
{D} Paragraph C above in this section does not apply if you hold a license in another radio service (Amateur, etc.) which allows you to operate an external RF power amplifier.
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Old 06-06-2015, 1:08 AM
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You've got to read the whole thing, they are talking about possessing an amplifier. You can possess a linear amplifier if you are permitted to use one under a different radio service.
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Old 06-06-2015, 1:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmckenna View Post
You've got to read the whole thing, they are talking about possessing an amplifier. You can possess a linear amplifier if you are permitted to use one under a different radio service.
That's generous of them. "PAPERS PLEASE!!!!"
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Old 06-06-2015, 1:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wwepeter View Post
RULE 11 - Linear Amplifiers

{A} You may not attach the following items (power amplifiers) to your type-accepted CB transmitter in any way:

[1] External radio frequency [RF] power amplifiers, also called linear amplifiers, or linears; or
[2] Any other devices which, when used with a radio transmitter as a signal source, are capable of amplifying the signal.
{B} There are no exceptions to this rule and use of a power amplifier voids your authority to operate the station.

{C} The FCC will presume you have used a linear or other external [RF] power amplifier if-

[1] It is in your possession or on your premises; and
[2] There is OTHER EVIDENCE that you have operated your CB station with more power than allowed by CB Rule 10.
{D} Paragraph C above in this section does not apply if you hold a license in another radio service (Amateur, etc.) which allows you to operate an external RF power amplifier.
Thanks for the reference and for typing it all out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mmckenna View Post
You've got to read the whole thing, they are talking about possessing an amplifier. You can possess a linear amplifier if you are permitted to use one under a different radio service.
I agree with mmckenna. The way I read it, Part D only nullifies Part C; but does not nullify Parts A and B.

So, as stated in Parts A and B, you cannot use a linear on 11m/CB no matter what.

But Part D says if you are licensed sufficiently, then possession of a linear won't automatically make you guilty (by presumption) of using the linear, whereas Part C declares presumed-guilt will be applied against the unlicensed person, if the unlicensed person possesses a linear (and there's evidence one has been used).

Thanks again,
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Last edited by QDP2012; 06-06-2015 at 2:08 AM..
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Old 06-06-2015, 1:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmckenna View Post
You've got to read the whole thing, they are talking about possessing an amplifier. You can possess a linear amplifier if you are permitted to use one under a different radio service.
{D} Paragraph C above in this section does not apply if you hold a license in another radio service (Amateur, etc.) which allows you to operate an external RF power amplifier.


wait i think it says operate a liner . possess and operate are 2 different things .
posses means you can have one sitting around the house . the rule says operate a liner amplifier .
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Old 06-06-2015, 1:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QDP2012 View Post
Thanks for the reference and for typing it all out.




I agree with mmckenna. The way I read it, Part D only nullifies Part C; but does not nullify Parts A and B.

So, as stated in Parts A and B, you cannot use a linear on 11m/CB no matter what.

But Part D says if you are licensed sufficiently, then possession of a linear won't automatically make you guilty (by presumption) of using the linear, whereas Part C declares presumed-guilt will be applied against the unlicensed person.

Thanks again,
.really does that make sense that you cant even have one lieing around even if its buried in a closet

Last edited by wwepeter; 06-06-2015 at 2:05 AM.. Reason: typo
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