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Power question

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Awz1287

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I received all the stuff to install my cb install in my 2012 gmc canyon.
There is an empty fuse for a sunroof which I don't have. Would I get interface if I use one of those fuse taps for that fuse? The fuse is one that turns on and off with the ignition, if that makes a difference.
For ground I was thinking of just going to the chassis, or will the negative post be better?
 

KC2GIU

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The fuse is one that turns on and off with the ignition, if that makes a difference.
For ground I was thinking of just going to the chassis, or will the negative post be better?

There are pros/cons for fusing a radio to the on/off of the ignition. Pros, you will not drain the battery dead if the radio was left on and you took the keys out. Cons, nobody can use the radio without your keys, thus if stranded in an emergency, a key would be needed to use the radio.

Chrysler vehicles prefer running radios directly to the positive of the battery with fuse with a good gauge wire and another good gauge wire with fuse to the vehicle ground. Chrysler is not all that keen having a radio tapped into the fuse/relay control center because of vehicle computer concerns. Especially vehicles with brake-by-wire, shift-by-wire, and keyless door FOB entry devices. Thus, check what GM requires for TRANSMITTING radios on the power network of their vehicles.

Grounding to chassis is better than grounding to battery. If any device (including a transmitting radio) hooked up to a vehicle needs to discharge energy, it's best going to ground vs. a discharge to the battery. Battery plates are not a good ground, only the negative side for stored energy. Thus, keep your battery happy and safe. Plus, no static or wired zaps using the radio if the ground goes to the chassis. Also, depending on the antenna used, ground to vehicle chassis is best for a transmission loop and keeps the battery indirectly out of that loop path.
 
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sdeeter19555

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I have a 2012 2500hd with the 6.0l, I tapped into the RAP (retain accessory power) using the connection described in the GM outfitters guide. Since it is a small power source, I have that RAP tap actuating a relay that actuates a bank of six relays for various things, including a CB.

Regardless of how you tie in, you will likely get some alternator whine...mine has it, always had (and connection direct to the batteries didn't make any change). These newer trucks seem to filter noise downstream instead of the source.

I know some guys have ran a lot of RF power in these newer GM trucks without issue.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
 

prcguy

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Hugh? All the return current through the chassis goes back to the battery anyway. The best place to attach both the positive and negative power leads of a transceiver are right to the battery. This will provide the least amount of voltage drop, the lease amount of noise pickup and the least amount of your transmit signal getting into the vehicle electrical system.

Grounding the antenna has nothing to do with the battery, that's all about the most sheet metal you can get under the antenna and providing the grounded side of the antenna with a good connection to that.
prcguy

Grounding to chassis is better than grounding to battery. If any device (including a transmitting radio) hooked up to a vehicle needs to discharge energy, it's best going to ground vs. a discharge to the battery. Battery plates are not a good ground, only the negative side for stored energy. Thus, keep your battery happy and safe. Plus, no static or wired zaps using the radio if the ground goes to the chassis. Also, depending on the antenna used, ground to vehicle chassis is best for a transmission loop and keeps the battery indirectly out of that loop path.
 

mmckenna

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I owned a 2005 GMC Canyon and I have a 2007 Chevy Colorado as a work truck.

I used the unused sunroof circuit on the 2007, but only as an ignition switched circuit to control a pair of Kenwood radios. Those 2 radios (one VHF and one 800MHz) are wired to the battery for their power. The commercial radios, however, usually have a separate ignition sense circuit that can be used to automatically turn the radios on and off. This would be different than using it as the primary power for a CB.
Unless things drastically changed between 2007 and 2012, the wire, either cream or light yellow colored, its taped off inside the "A" pillar on the drivers side. Pulling that trim off will expose the wire harness. About half way up you'll see the wire taped off. I tied into the circuit there and ran a wire to where the RF decks are mounted under the seat. I installed a 3 amp fuse in the slot, since these ignition sense circuit only draw a few hundred milliamps at most.
I think the factory sun roof had either a 15 or 20 amp fuse, you could find that in the owners manual.

Anyway, back to CB's.
This unused sun roof circuit would work for what you need, however I'm not entirely confident you wouldn't pick up some noise. Only way to know would be to try. Your CB only needs a few amps, so installing a 5 amp fuse would work fine.
If your CB has 3 wires for the power connection, it'll let you tie the black and red direct to the battery for clean power and use the orange lead for the ignition sense circuit. Not all CB's are set up this way, so it'll depend on what you have.

Wiring the power in these trucks isn't hard. I had a VHF in my 2005 and wired both + and - direct to the battery, as is pretty standard in the industry. I was getting some alternator whine on my TX audio and I was able to fix it by taking the - lead for the radio off the battery post and moving it to a screw on the firewall to pick up body ground.

As for grounding, different radio manufacturers do this differently. Many Motorola, Kenwood and Icom come with leads long enough and instructions to tie the power directly to the battery. Fuses come installed on these leads so the circuit is fused within a few inches of the battery. Motorola's usually come with just the + lead fused. Some of the Icom's I've used had fuses on both + and -. This is a pretty hot discussion item and people will claim that one way is "right" and one way is "wrong".
Some higher powered mobiles, like 100 watt VHF and UHF mobiles, will come with a long fused + lead and a short - lead intended to be attached to a body ground near the radio. Usually it's a good idea to follow what the manufacturer is saying.

My recommendation is to do what the manual says, and follow that up with a short ground lead from the radio chassis to the vehicle body. This shorter ground path can help bleed of some noise, while maintaining a good connection to the battery.
 

KC2GIU

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My recommendation is to do what the manual says, and follow that up with a short ground lead from the radio chassis to the vehicle body. This shorter ground path can help bleed of some noise, while maintaining a good connection to the battery.

Good advise all the way around.

As for those with noise, a few chokes will tame the noise down or remove it enough to not notice much of it.

Knowing that transmitting radios use more power than listening radios, a fuse on both + and - is a good method to the battery or if going to the battery and ground of vehicle.

I know that old Cobra and Uniden radios made by Uniden had a radio PCB ground (floated ground voltage) and a chassis ground. Connecting the radio chassis ground to vehicle ground was the best method because of the antenna SWR matching and grounding loop. Putting the battery into the equation raised the SWR match. I tried it both was in two different types of vehicles and got the same results.

Read the radio manual. Some radios need a 10A fuse, others 5A. Careful connecting to an existing vehicle harness wiring without knowing the fuse rated for that circuit. Automotive uses three different wire gauges for switches, power outlet, speakers, etc all in the vehicle cabin area.
 

Awz1287

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The radio is a bearcat 980 ssb. The instructions say to do it directly to the battery. I also heard that the radio gets less noise if it is grounded to the chassis and not the battery.
Should I just go with the instructions?
What do you mean by a few chokes?
It doesn't have a fuse on the black wire just the red should I add one to the black wire?
For the radio chassis grounding, how do I go about that, just put a wire from one of the back screws to the vehicle frame? Here's a photo of the back of the radio:
http://www.cbradiomagazine.com/Radio Reviews/Uniden Bearcat 980/980-2small.png
 

KC2GIU

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The radio is a bearcat 980 ssb. The instructions say to do it directly to the battery. I also heard that the radio gets less noise if it is grounded to the chassis and not the battery.
Should I just go with the instructions?
What do you mean by a few chokes?
It doesn't have a fuse on the black wire just the red should I add one to the black wire?
For the radio chassis grounding, how do I go about that, just put a wire from one of the back screws to the vehicle frame? Here's a photo of the back of the radio:
http://www.cbradiomagazine.com/Radio Reviews/Uniden Bearcat 980/980-2small.png

Grounding the back of the chassis is easy. If you look on-line for the radio internals, you can pick what screw would work best. Do not wrap a bare wire end to the screw. Use a loop terminal crimped onto the exposed wire end. Use a complete insulated wire type of 16 or 14 gauge.

A ferrite clam-shell choke would be the easiest to use.
http://www.dubuque-forsale.com/This...hoke-noise-suppressor-core-filter-picture.jpg

The longer and thicker the coke, usually will perform better. But it comes with a price tag. So, look for the best you can afford.

Yes, there is less noise to the vehicle chassis for both the radio and for the vehicle. Today's vehicles use a power Control Module and computer network. So, keeping the ground off the batter where the PCM gets it's ground connect will help.
 

Awz1287

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Grounding the back of the chassis is easy. If you look on-line for the radio internals, you can pick what screw would work best. Do not wrap a bare wire end to the screw. Use a loop terminal crimped onto the exposed wire end. Use a complete insulated wire type of 16 or 14 gauge.

Thanks. What do I look for on location?

http://cbradiomagazine.com/Radio Reviews/Uniden Bearcat 980/IMG_4296 (Copy).JPG

http://cbradiomagazine.com/Radio Reviews/Uniden Bearcat 980/IMG_4293 (Copy).JPG
 

mmckenna

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Looks like any of the screws on the back will work fine. They all are connected to the chassis, and that's what you need. The one to the lower left of the antenna jack is probably the one I'd use.

Your radio has the 3 pin power connector, so you should be able to do the ignition switched "sun roof" circuit for that, the red and black are for your primary power.
I wouldn't worry about fusing the black lead if it didn't have one from the factory.

I understand what he's saying about the chokes, but if you connect it all correctly using proper hardware you shouldn't need anything else. AM CB radios are a bit more prone to noise, so try the install first, only add chokes if you really need them.

If you know how to properly solder, make sure you solder all your crimped connections. Having good low resistance connections are important. Relying just on crimps isn't always a good idea, especially anywhere that's exposed to the weather.

Also, pay attention to your antenna install. What's your plan for your antenna?
 

Awz1287

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There is 3 pins on the connector but only 2 wires one red and one black. How do I do the ignition circuit?

For the antenna I have the following stuff:
LARSEN NMO-27C Antenna Mobile Single Other
LARSEN NMO-KHFUDFME Antenna Accessories Mounts Bumper-Body
http://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/laird-technologies-lbh3400-3844.html

How does the antenna stuff look? I could exchange it if you recommend something else.
I am putting the antenna on the front fender
I know some of the nmo mounts have to be sealed. Does the one I got need sealing?
 

mmckenna

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Larsen NMO-27C is an excellent antenna. I haven't used CB in a long time, but when I did, that's all I used.
Professional antenna, not consumer grade crap. Look after that antenna and it will last you a lifetime. There is an all black version (NMO-27B) that's the same antenna, but with a black whip. Problem with the black coating is that it'll wear off. The Chrome antenna is a much better choice.

Nice thing is, once you put in an NMO mount, you can easily swap out antennas as your needs change.

As for the bracket mount, that'll likely work, but I'm not personally a big fan of those. I prefer drilling the hole and mounting the NMO mount on the roof. Putting the antenna dead center on the truck roof will improve performance.

Also, if you do go with that NMO mount, make sure you seal the point where the cable enters the mount. Water intrusion will wreck things pretty quickly.
 

mrweather

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Also, if you do go with that NMO mount, make sure you seal the point where the cable enters the mount. Water intrusion will wreck things pretty quickly.
That's another advantage of through-hole NMO mount: the cable connector at the mount is "inside" the vehicle and can't be affected by weather.

I second the NMO27 as well. Solid antenna.
 

sdeeter19555

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There is 3 pins on the connector but only 2 wires one red and one black. How do I do the ignition circuit?

For the antenna I have the following stuff:
LARSEN NMO-27C Antenna Mobile Single Other
LARSEN NMO-KHFUDFME Antenna Accessories Mounts Bumper-Body
http://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/laird-technologies-lbh3400-3844.html

How does the antenna stuff look? I could exchange it if you recommend something else.
I am putting the antenna on the front fender
I know some of the nmo mounts have to be sealed. Does the one I got need sealing?
You don't have an ignition trigger wire on that radio.

Run a relay trigger wire off the fuse under the hood that you identified, and run the ground from the battery to the radio and the positive from the battery through the relay to the radio. Add a ground to the relay, and the radio will turn on/off with the ignition and get full power directly from the battery.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
 

mmckenna

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How should I seal it? Where specifically do I seal?
Will this stuff work, I have some on hand?
Auto/Marine 100 RTV Silicone Sealant - DAP

You need to seal around where the coax cable enters the base of the mount. The cable is held in there with a combination crimp and the center conductor soldered. The crimp where the cable enters the mount isn't waterproof. As Mr. Weather said, these mounts are designed to be installed through the sheet metal, where the coaxial cable would be protected inside the vehicle. The bracket mounts expose this part to the elements. Any time you get water inside the cable you are going to have corrosion issues. What's worse, is water, road salts, and other pollutants, like you'd find on the road. Making sure that bad stuff doesn't reach the copper inside the cable is extremely important.

RTV will work, but marine grade heat shrink tubing will work better. Marine grade heat shrink has an adhesive coating on the inside. When you heat it, the tubing shrinks and the glue melts and seals the cable. You'd be able to find it at a marine supply store, good hardware store, or from several sources online.

As for mounting, center of the truck roof is ideal. Anywhere else is a compromise. I understand not wanting to drill a hole, but it's not as bad as you think. I've installed NMO mounts on a lot of cars and trucks, and never had an issue when I traded them in. This included several lease vehicles. If you are really concerned, you can cap off the mount, or just get a cellular antenna on it and tell the buyer you had great cell phone service.

But, yeah, probably off the hood with that bracket would work best. Don't mount it behind the cab! That's about the worst place to put an antenna. The cab will interfere and cause a lot of reflected power (high SWR).
 

HummerMike

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There will be a never ending debate on grounding to the frame or directly to the battery. If you do ground to the battery, fuse your negative lead. The fuse will blow rather than melting the negative lead back and possibly doing some bad damage such as a fire if the main negative side battery wire were to come loose. If you ground to the frame, you don't have to have a fuse on the negative wire.
. A good radio chassis ground will help with RF noise. The shorter the better. You will see a lot of flat braid bonding straps in cars from the hood, trunk & exhaust systems to ground just for the purpose of RF suppression.

Mike
 
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