Business Bands

[1clo1]

Hello everyone,
Hopefully someone can answer or point me in the right direction.
i'm wondering after i get my license wit the FCC for business band Frequencies, Would it be possible to set up a repeater system? if so what is required?

 

[mmckenna]

Only if your license allows it.

A "business band" license does not automatically allow a repeater to be used. You would need to work with your frequency coordinator to identify a frequency pair (repeater input and repeater output) and file the license application accordingly.

As for setting up a repeater system, it's not something that most people can do. It takes a lot of skill and experience to do it right. While there are companies that will happily sell you a repeater, expecting good results may not be realistic.

 

[1clo1]

Thank you for your reply, im aware of getting a frequency coordinator to pair them and the license required to do that, i was told that i need to get the license for business band first then the frequency coordinator would let me know what i need to get the proper license. i thought i would need the frequency coordinator to determine what frequencies i would need first. so i'm a little confused about that.

as far as the repeater setup does any one know what it would require? could a frequency coordinator do something like that? if now any ideas where to begin to get that going?

 

[mmckenna]

It's possible that you either misunderstood the process or were just given bad information.

When you apply for the license, you need to specify the frequency or frequencies you want. From what it sounds like you want to do, you'll require the assistance of a frequency coordinator to find suitable and available frequencies.
Unless you are applying for a itinerant frequency, the FCC will require a frequency coordinator to sign off on this.

Once you have the frequency pair licensed, you can build out the repeater system.


If you are just beginning this process, you might want to talk to a local radio shop first. Here's why:
1. They can assist with the licensing. They can also help you contact a frequency coordinator.
2. They can help you decide what sort of system you need. Depending on what type of business you are running, what your coverage needs are, what your budget is, etc. they can help.

Consider that it may be easier/cheaper to just rent radio service from one of the local shops. While having your own repeater might seem like an easy solution, it often isn't. Repeaters can be expensive, several thousand for a decent one. Add in the duplexer, coaxial cable, antenna(s), tower site, etc. and you can easily spend $10,000 to $20,000 or more on a decent repeater. The site will be important, too. For the repeater to work well and have good coverage, you are going to need a tall building, tall tower, or access to a mountain top site for the system. That means you either need to have access to this or pay someone for it. Usually tower space leasing can be on the order for several hundred dollars a month or more.
Renting radio air time from a shop can be a whole lot cheaper, plus you can benefit from much wider area coverage.

If putting up your own repeater is really the direction you want to go, you really need to talk to a competent radio shop. Putting up your own repeater is not easy. It requires some very expensive test equipment to make it all work correctly. The skills, tools and experience necessary are important, and this is where the shop can really help out.

 

[1clo1]

Thank you for your reply that clarified a lot of things, i believe the frequencies that i'm getting the license for are itinerant frequencies. i was having trouble finding a frequency coordinator the one radio shop i talked to said that its not possible to talk to one unless you have license. I'm thinking he was BSing me, i will contact another radio shop and see what they say.

 

[mmckenna]

OK.
You won't run a repeater on itinerant frequencies, so you will need something specific for that use.
Having an itinerant channel can be useful for simplex use, as long as you understand it's a shared resource and not a "private" channel.

I think the shop was not giving you the whole story.
You can often find frequency coordinators that will do the entire process for you, and that can be a good thing. They can identify available frequencies as well as help you file the application. It comes at a cost, but that cost can be well worth it. FCC forms are not something to tackle unless you've got some experience with it. Paying to get it done can save you a real headache.

 

[1clo1]

Thank you for the reply.

I'm aware that I can't use repeaters on itinerant frequencies, I'm wanting to see about setting up my own repeater. I was told I can't talk to a frequency coordinator till i have a license. So if I get a license for itinerant which I need any way to use the radios i acquired, I can then see about getting a license for repeater use after I talk to a frequency coordinator. I'm wanting to know if any one knows what equipment i would need and if it would be possible to set it up. The previous answer I got helped me out a lot. So inthink I under stand what I need to do.

 

[W8RMH]

You don't need any kind of license to talk to a coordinator.

 

[1clo1]

Yeah, I'm figuring that out. Think the radio shop.was BSin me.

 

[ecps92]

?? There are plenty of Repeater licenses on Itinerant UHF
464.5000 R / 469.5000 and 464.5500 R / 469.5500 are two valid Repeater pairs

OK.
You won't run a repeater on itinerant frequencies, so you will need something specific for that use.
Having an itinerant channel can be useful for simplex use, as long as you understand it's a shared resource and not a "private" channel.

I think the shop was not giving you the whole story.
You can often find frequency coordinators that will do the entire process for you, and that can be a good thing. They can identify available frequencies as well as help you file the application. It comes at a cost, but that cost can be well worth it. FCC forms are not something to tackle unless you've got some experience with it. Paying to get it done can save you a real headache.

 

[kjk681]

You can do itinerant repeaters, and I personally have licenses for this both on UHF and VHF. However, these are only legal to use for temporary operations, so if you intend your repeater to be fixed at a single location, you will need other frequencies licensed.

I do this type of licensing work for users across the country and specifically with multiple public safety agencies in the Denver area. PM me if you would like assistance getting your license.

Yeah, I'm figuring that out. Think the radio shop.was BSin me.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

?? There are plenty of Repeater licenses on Itinerant UHF
464.5000 R / 469.5000 and 464.5500 R / 469.5500 are two valid Repeater pairs

But itinerant usage by definition is not for fixed equipment. Now one could make the argument that a fixed station that is disabled on a regular basis (and only enabled on an irregular basis) and the owner uses other repeaters in different locations the same way (on the same license)...would fit the itinerant licensing purpose. Rental services (for example, Bearcom's Rental division) operate on this principal for their conventional licensing. Only used in the same location for an event and then the repeater (which is not fixed equipment) is moved to a different location for another event if it's not put into storage for some amount of time.

Now that being said, there are some advantages to owning a system as well as some to leasing service through airtime. Owned equipment you can write off depreciation. Leased equipment (and services) you can write off the entire cost of the lease. Owned equipment you are typically responsible for maintaining (or paying to have maintained), leased equipment you generally are not responsible for maintaining.

A lot of people (who are coming back to radio for one reason or another) get sticker shock when they see the pricing of the equipment and think it's way too high. I have the original sales receipt from a Micor I acquired dated 1982 for $12,000 for the Micor and installation that the owner (a pluming company) paid just to have semi-local area communications. $12,000 in 1982 has roughly the same buying power as $31,000 today. Today I could put in a comparable system for about $6,000-$8,000 under my company's current price structuring (not aimed at public safety but at small business).

 

[ecps92]

Well aware of that, however the blanket statement was about No use of Repeater on Itinerant Frequencies.

But itinerant usage by definition is not for fixed equipment. Now one could make the argument that a fixed station that is disabled on a regular basis (and only enabled on an irregular basis) and the owner uses other repeaters in different locations the same way (on the same license)...would fit the itinerant licensing purpose. Rental services (for example, Bearcom's Rental division) operate on this principal for their conventional licensing. Only used in the same location for an event and then the repeater (which is not fixed equipment) is moved to a different location for another event if it's not put into storage for some amount of time.

Now that being said, there are some advantages to owning a system as well as some to leasing service through airtime. Owned equipment you can write off depreciation. Leased equipment (and services) you can write off the entire cost of the lease. Owned equipment you are typically responsible for maintaining (or paying to have maintained), leased equipment you generally are not responsible for maintaining.

A lot of people (who are coming back to radio for one reason or another) get sticker shock when they see the pricing of the equipment and think it's way too high. I have the original sales receipt from a Micor I acquired dated 1982 for $12,000 for the Micor and installation that the owner (a pluming company) paid just to have semi-local area communications. $12,000 in 1982 has roughly the same buying power as $31,000 today. Today I could put in a comparable system for about $6,000-$8,000 under my company's current price structuring (not aimed at public safety but at small business).

 

[mmckenna]

Well aware of that, however the blanket statement was about No use of Repeater on Itinerant Frequencies.

It wasn't a "blanket statement". I said you won't run a repeater…
What I should have said was "won't want to run a repeater on itinerant frequencies"

If the OP is looking to put up a fixed repeater, sharing the frequency with contractors, unlicensed users (all things I've seen on itinerant frequencies), etc. probably isn't what he's looking for.

Yes, I left out a word. Either comes from typing too fast, trying to multi-task, or to damn tired. Either way, I know what I meant, and it appears the OP did, too.

If you had read through the OP's comments, you would have seen he didn't want to put it on an itinerant frequency. He's looking for a coordinated pair.

Feel free to focus on the word I left out, but that isn't helping the OP.
Yes, you can put a repeater on an itinerant pair, I have licenses at work for such things, although we no longer use it. If the OP had said he wanted a fixed repeater on an itinerant pair, I would have discouraged it.

Itinerant frequencies are widely used in my area without licenses. It's become a business free for all. Sitting at a high site, frequencies like 464.500, 464.550 all have multiple conversations going on at the same time. From those I've been able to positively ID, none of them, so far, have FCC licenses. Not somewhere I'd want to spend a bunch of money putting a repeater, especially when a frequency coordinator could likely find a suitable pair.

 

[ecps92]

Not focusing on a missing word, the reply was focused on the "statement"

As to the Suitable Pair from a Freq Coordinator, it might be better for the OP to search and then sit on a frequency. With so much DMR now, Analog Repeaters are taking a big hit for FREE air-time. No one monitors before transmitting

We now return you to the program already in progress

It wasn't a "blanket statement". I said you won't run a repeater…
What I should have said was "won't want to run a repeater on itinerant frequencies"

If the OP is looking to put up a fixed repeater, sharing the frequency with contractors, unlicensed users (all things I've seen on itinerant frequencies), etc. probably isn't what he's looking for.

Yes, I left out a word. Either comes from typing too fast, trying to multi-task, or to damn tired. Either way, I know what I meant, and it appears the OP did, too.

If you had read through the OP's comments, you would have seen he didn't want to put it on an itinerant frequency. He's looking for a coordinated pair.

Feel free to focus on the word I left out, but that isn't helping the OP.
Yes, you can put a repeater on an itinerant pair, I have licenses at work for such things, although we no longer use it. If the OP had said he wanted a fixed repeater on an itinerant pair, I would have discouraged it.

Itinerant frequencies are widely used in my area without licenses. It's become a business free for all. Sitting at a high site, frequencies like 464.500, 464.550 all have multiple conversations going on at the same time. From those I've been able to positively ID, none of them, so far, have FCC licenses. Not somewhere I'd want to spend a bunch of money putting a repeater, especially when a frequency coordinator could likely find a suitable pair.