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1/4 Wave VHF With Spring? Without?

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SARCommCoord

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So I have been involved with Public Safety for a while. I have seen every type of VHF antenna imaginable. I currently work handling Incident Communications... With that said, is there any real significant difference between the various types of 1/4 VHF antennas? Some have small gauge whips, some have larger gauge whips, some have springs, other do not etc, Your thoughts and opinions?
 

n0nhp

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The larger the diameter of the radiating element, the wider the bandwidth. If you buy a "Wide Band 1/4" It will usually have a spring and heavy whip. The small whips are cheaper and if you are setting up a business that has one or two fairly close spaced frequencies, you can save them money by using the narrower band antennas. Public safety is usually the bigger market for the wide band antennas due to the officers wanting everything in their radios including some government band stuff.

Airband antennas often will have a 2" cylinder as the radiating element. This will give a reasonable SWR across the entire band, not too handy for mobile use though.

Bruce
 
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SARCommCoord

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The larger the diameter of the radiating element, the wider the bandwidth. If you buy a "Wide Band 1/4" It will usually have a spring and heavy whip. The small whips are cheaper and if you are setting up a business that has one or two fairly close spaced frequencies, you can save them money by using the narrower band antennas. Public safety is usually the bigger market for the wide band antennas due to the officers wanting everything in their radios including some government band stuff.

Airband antennas often will have a 2" cylinder as the radiating element. This will give a reasonable SWR across the entire band, not too handy for mobile use though.

Bruce

I had a feeling that it was something along those lines but was not sure. Antenna design isn't my specialty. Now from experience, my vehicle has a Motorola proprietary wide band 1/4 antenna. Whip is thick gauged with a nice spring on it. Works great for forestry from 159-170Mhz. Works decently around 154 as well. Performance around the amateur radio band isn't spectacular however, but i guess that is to be expected.
 

talkpair

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Are you sure it's a quarter wave antenna?

I can't picture a quarter wave in the 159-170 mHz range with a spring.

Normally they are a 18-19" whip or rod without a spring.
 
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SARCommCoord

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Here is the antenna
 

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mmckenna

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Spring or not, it's the antenna length that makes it resonate at the intended frequencies. The spring is just there for a level of shock absorption.

On a tall vehicle, the spring might be helpful for tree branch strikes, but that's about it. Usually the springs are pretty stiff, so they don't really help a whole bunch. A thin whip will fold over almost as well, however it may take a permanent bend.

Whip diameter does play into useable bandwidth, but on a 1/4 wave mobile antenna, it doesn't make that much a difference. I've put these on $20,000 analyzers and you'd be hard pressed to make that argument when you look at the plots.

On my work and personal trucks, I've got a VHF quarter wave mounted in the center of the truck roof. Looking at "usable" SWR, no issues from 144 to 170, doesn't even touch the 2.0:1 point. Stays below 1.75 or so across the band.

Of course it does matter when the antenna is cut for in the first place. If you are using an antenna that is cut for 160MHz it's going to do better closer to that. On my personal truck, I've centered mine around 150MHz. Works fine for my amateur radio use as well as our work stuff up around 159MHz. On my work truck, I center the tuning closer to 158. Still useable on amateur 2 meters, but also suitable for the fed interoperability frequencies in the upper 160mHz range.

As for which antenna design to use, there seems to be two trains of though on this:
1. Go cheap. $10 "chrome nut" antenna. If it gets damaged, just grab a new one and replace it.
2. Spend a bit more and not have to replace it as often.

Key here is that I've never felt a mobile antenna was not a consumable item. I figure if we get a few years out of them were doing pretty good. Seals rot, whips get bent, corrosion, etc will all take them over time.
We received 6 new police cars about 3 years ago. Installers had put on the $10 whips. Worked fine for a few years, then started getting a few complaints. Whip flexing from car washes, etc. have bent the whips over time and allowed water to seep down inside the seals to the mounts causing some corrosion. I've replaced them with Larsen NMO-Q's with the better sealed base. Will likely solve the water intrusion issue, but I still figure I'll be replacing them in a few years.

Important thing is to get quality antennas and tune them for the center of your band. Don't cut corners to save $5 per antenna. Whip diameter isn't that critical in a mobile install. Keep up with periodic maintenance. Make sure the installer actually puts them on an analyzer and checks them after the install is complete. Way to many installers just take the antenna out of the bag, screw it on and walk away.
 
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SARCommCoord

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Don't look like an 1/4 wave to me,looks like theirs a coil below the spring i might be wrong but thats what it looks to me.......

I missed that you edited it. Supposedly this is a proprietary antenna. Underneath the spring, there is a large steel braided wire connecting the nmo attachment to the area below the whip (if that makes sense). If you look at some of the USFS vehicles, they have an almost identical antenna. If this isnt VHF, then I am just lucky, because this antenna hits repeaters and does simplex better then any i've had.
 

KevinC

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I missed that you edited it. Supposedly this is a proprietary antenna. Underneath the spring, there is a large steel braided wire connecting the nmo attachment to the area below the whip (if that makes sense). If you look at some of the USFS vehicles, they have an almost identical antenna. If this isnt VHF, then I am just lucky, because this antenna hits repeaters and does simplex better then any i've had.

It's a broadband VHF antenna.
 

cmdrwill

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It's a broadband VHF antenna.

Antenna Specialist's attempt at a 'broad' band VHF 1/4 wave antenna.

We use the Comtelco A1511 with a 3/16 dia rod. Even have a few with 1/4 dia whips for the really wide b/w 144-174.
 

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SARCommCoord

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Antenna Specialist's attempt at a 'broad' band VHF 1/4 wave antenna.

We use the Comtelco A1511 with a 3/16 dia rod. Even have a few with 1/4 dia whips for the really wide b/w 144-174.

I had a feeling it wasn't "Motorola" as I had never seen that model before. It works well though for forestry.
 

jeepsandradios

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Don't look like an 1/4 wave to me,looks like theirs a coil below the spring i might be wrong but thats what it looks to me.......

Heavy Duty VHF 1/4 wave from Motorola. Installed hundreds. Great antenna depending on where you tune. All our PS channels are around 155 and this antenna works up into the low 160 and down to the ham stuff. Have a few sitting currently waiting for install.
 

cmdrwill

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They were made by Antenna Specialists and Motorola re sold them under one of the Motorola numbers.
That was when I was working for a MSS and we had way too many problems with them. Motorola discontinued selling them. I see some surplus one every once in a while.
 

Project25_MASTR

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Depends on location and purpose.

My jeep has a NMO-QB with spring. My trailblazer just had a NMO-QB. I kept them for the bandwidth never noticing any difference between one and a 5/8 wave in a roof mount application. The jeep stays in a garage when not in use…and happens to be sitting on 32" ties with a 4" suspension lift so it contacts around 12" when pulling into the garage.

What I like about the NMO-Q series, they are rebuild able. The Q base is essentially a NMO to L mount adapter. The top nut and whip can be ordered separately for about half the cost of a new whip. Also some guys just order the parts and built .110" versions instead of the standard .100" version.

My Sierra is a different story. I have a wideband, triband whip on it (146-174/430-480/764-895) but when I know I have to deal with garages that I may be too tall for (leveled 2013 Sierra with 34" tires) I generally swap the whip for a nitol variant and sacrifice resonance on 7/800/ and gain on UHF.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

SCPD

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Maybe UHF

That could be a UHF antenna.
We used to get antennas that sorta looked like that made by Antenna Specialist for UHF.
They came mounted on a foot square metal plate that was used with a wireless plant radio system.
They were sold with radios were made by Femco and Gai-Tronics, and mounted on the wall.
 

SCPD

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Kitn1mcc

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i use this style as well as the ones with out the spring. i found they are easier to install and last way more than the "brass button" style . they are also good for on truck fenders
 
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