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Commercial Radio Antennas - Please keep discussion related to professional, commercially used antennas and antenna systems for the two-way radio industry. Topics for the use of these antennas on amateur bands are accepted here.

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-19-2017, 4:14 PM
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Post Tram 1410 improvement attempt

Hi Radio Reference forum viewers,

Has anybody that owns or previously owned the Tram 1410 Discone Scanner Antenna ever considered or tried reversing the threaded 32-inch Stainless Steel antenna elements with the top loaded 10-1/2” short antenna elements? In other words, installing the 32” antenna elements into the top of the Tram 1410 & the 10-1/2” antenna elements into the bottom where the 32” are supposed to be installed. Just curious if this works or if anybody here has tried & done this test with the Tram 1410?

I just ordered the Tram 1410 today & came up with this possibly brilliant idea to maybe try when I receive it for possibly better frequency signal receiving coverage coming in to my digital public safety scanner. My other brilliant idea too, was to order an additional one of the Tram 1410 Antenna at under $50.00 & then installing only the 32” Stainless Steel antenna elements on both the top & the bottom of this antenna making for a total of Sixteen 32” antenna elements instead of just Eight & bypassing installing the short 10-1/2” elements at all on the Tram 1410.

Let me know your thoughts here. Thanks!
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Old 06-19-2017, 4:18 PM
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It'll completely degrade the performance of the antenna. Basically you have a piece of random metal as an antenna.
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Old 06-19-2017, 4:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K5BBC View Post
It'll completely degrade the performance of the antenna. Basically you have a piece of random metal as an antenna.
OK, so you are recommending that I keep its installation & setup as it is & is supposed to be for the best reception & performance? Thanks for the info.
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Old 06-19-2017, 4:26 PM
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The impedance will be off

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Old 06-19-2017, 9:21 PM
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what you CAN do is remove the top hat elements and instead install
1/4 wave rods for every band you want to hear

Then bend them up at a 45 degree angle

this will produce MUCH better performance than the discone design

discones have poor performance over a wide range of frequencies so a mere 1\4 wave groundplane can make a huge improvement
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Old 07-13-2017, 6:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorwinScansNM View Post
I just ordered the Tram 1410 today
Who did you find that had the 1410 in stock? I've had one on backorder for 3 months from BuyTwoWayRadio
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Old 07-13-2017, 9:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AI6VX View Post
Who did you find that had the 1410 in stock? I've had one on backorder for 3 months from BuyTwoWayRadio
I purchased mine on eBay.

Tram 1410 Discone Broad Band Scanner RTL-SDR ADS-B Ham Antenna 25-1300MHz W5SWL | eBay

Also this seller on eBay has a website as well but the antenna is more expensive here than on eBay from this seller.

http://www.daveshobbyshop.com/index....oducts_id=2158
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Old 07-13-2017, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorwinScansNM View Post
I purchased mine on eBay.

Tram 1410 Discone Broad Band Scanner RTL-SDR ADS-B Ham Antenna 25-1300MHz W5SWL | eBay

Also this seller on eBay has a website as well but the antenna is more expensive here than on eBay from this seller.

http://www.daveshobbyshop.com/index....oducts_id=2158
Cancelled my BuyTwoWayRadio order and just purchased from your same seller. Thanks!

How do you like this antenna?
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Old 07-15-2017, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AI6VX View Post
Cancelled my BuyTwoWayRadio order and just purchased from your same seller. Thanks!

How do you like this antenna?
To me, the Tram 1410 was not all that great of scanner antenna for me & my BCD536HP Scanner even though it was all solid Stainless Steel elements & construction which is why I purchased & tried it. It was just OK like many other outdoor scanner antennas that I have also tried in the last 7 years but not that great either. I just recently purchased another outdoor scanner antenna around the same price on eBay that I am happier with for what it is receiving for me with my specific programmed scanner frequencies. It is the Procomm SP-800 which is very small & lightweight as compared to my previous outdoor scanner antennas which were mainly Discone Antennas. The Procomm SP-800 only has 12" & 16" long radicals which is what shocked me about it when I received it. That's because I am use to the long 32" radicals/elements from many of my previous Discone antennas.

Anyway, as of right now, the Procomm SP-800 seems to be on the top for me out of all of the others that I have previously bought & tried. It seems that the Procomm SP-800 is beating the receiving of my specific programmed scanner frequencies over the previous Tram 1410. I have my Procomm SP-800 currently hooked up to my scanner with 50 feet of LMR-400 Coax, 45 feet in the air, then I have it first going into a PCT-MA2-M TV Amplifier & then from that, into my BCD536HP Scanner. I still have 2 other outdoor scanner antennas that I am going to buy & try out before I finally choose & stay with the best one out of all of them for my receiving. One of them is the, CenterFire Multi-Band Vertical Dipole Antenna. The other is a very unique looking one sold on eBay that I have never tried or seen anywhere except on eBay which is the, SE-V1300 Discone Scanner Base Station Antenna / Aerial made in the UK & coasts around $100.
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Old 07-15-2017, 8:06 AM
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Getting back into the hobby last year after 25 years away, I bought a Centerfire discone. It was ok, was far too wideband for my needs, distance was only 30 miles or so. I made a 1/2 wave dipole out of 3/8" aluminum tube cut to 156 mhz and resonates near 142 mhz or so. Great on Air band and into USFS channels. Best antenna I've ever used. I'm in Abq about 1 mile from the nearest APD Provoice tower, comes in clearer than the discone did (didn't expect that), receives UHF from all over the city and is outstanding on VHF which entirely surrounds the city. I even saw a hit from Shiprock, AZ 2 days ago. I don't have a tower because of HOA, but it's mounted on top of a 5 foot high patio fence. (I am on top of a little hill).

If you're really interested in antennas, I suggest building your own for your own needs. All the materials are at Lowes and at reasonable prices.
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Old 07-15-2017, 9:53 AM
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A Discone is about equal to a 1/4 wave ground plane over much of its 8:1 band width and maybe a 1dB or so down from a 1/2 wave dipole. If you look at commercial or military versions tested on antenna ranges the test specs speak for themselves.

The problem for many people is about half way through its BW the radiation pattern starts to point upward and you loose gain at the horizon even though the Discone is still meeting spec on gain. Its just not where you need it.

For a typical scanner Discone that has a 100MHz bottom end, you will get resonant 1/4 wave ground plane performance from about 100MHz to about 500Mhz then the pattern shifts and 700/800/900MHz will suffer. So one of the worst things you can do is try and modify a Discone by adding elements or reversing the cone or skirt. A scanner enthusiast is not going to happen across a magic improvement to an antenna that's been used and studied extensively for the last 75yrs.

The Discone is related to a V beam or horn antenna where it launches a wave from the apex of the skirt and cone, so it doesn't work like a typical ground plane. Its modeled like a bunch of V beams or horns arranged in an omni configuation.

Just understand where the antenna works well and use it for 100-500MHz range and if you have distant stuff at 800MHz then supplement the Discone with a higher performance 800 antenna and a diplexer.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOTEX View Post
what you CAN do is remove the top hat elements and instead install
1/4 wave rods for every band you want to hear

Then bend them up at a 45 degree angle

this will produce MUCH better performance than the discone design

discones have poor performance over a wide range of frequencies so a mere 1\4 wave groundplane can make a huge improvement
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Old 07-15-2017, 3:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorwinScansNM View Post
To me, the Tram 1410 was not all that great of scanner antenna for me & my BCD536HP Scanner even though it was all solid Stainless Steel elements & construction which is why I purchased & tried it.
Thanks. I wonder if it's because the 1410 lacks the center vertical element unlike the 1411 and the Diamond Discone.
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Old 07-15-2017, 7:37 PM
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If its designed properly the whip on top will only resonate around 50MHz on most models and its supposed to be out of the circuit on all other bands.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AI6VX View Post
Thanks. I wonder if it's because the 1410 lacks the center vertical element unlike the 1411 and the Diamond Discone.
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