Tram pre-installed connectors/NMO mounts

[mmckenna]

So, my dad got a new truck. He did the radio install and asked me to help him do the NMO mount. Permanent mount, the right way to do it.

He shows up at my house with a Tram NMO mount with a pre-installed PL-259 connector. He sees me face-palm and gives me a hard time. It's what he brought with him. I offer him a Larsen NMO mount, but he declines. So, I work with what I've got.

The NMO mount seems fine. No real difference between any of the other name brand mounts.
The RG-58 seems OK. Good braid coverage. I didn't bother putting it on the analyzer, but "looked" as good as any of the other stuff.

It had a preinstalled PL-259 connector which I cut off so we could route the cable. I left it sitting on the bench and a few days later I decided to disassemble it to see what kind of quality. I cut the molded strain relief off and this is what I found underneath:

Cheap connector. Smashed out shield crimp. Center conductor was soldered in pretty well. Really easy to pull the outer shield from the crimp. The over molded strain relief is really what holds these things together. Out shield isn't crimped around the connector, just the dielectric.

Fine for a scanner, CB, etc. Not sure I'd trust it for much else.
I replaced it with a proper crimp on name brand connector.

 

[w6hp]

I replaced it with a proper crimp on name brand connector.]

Who makes one? I've looked for a long time and never found any.

 

[N4KVE]

Tram, & Browning products are cheap JUNK. Years ago, Tram, & Browning were quality US made CB radios. The best available. But with the Japanese imports, they eventually went out of business. A smart businessman bought the rights to both names, & sells junk with those names attached. He assumes [correctly] that people will buy this junk associating the names Tram, & Browning with the quality CB radios of decades gone by. A friend purchased a Tram antenna that looked very similar to a Liard TRAB4503 I had. While my Laird antenna worked great, the similar looking Tram antenna was useless, & in the dumpster within a week. He then purchased a Laird like mine, & he is very happy.

 

[12dbsinad]

Who makes one? I've looked for a long time and never found any.

RF Industries.

 

[mmckenna]

Who makes one? I've looked for a long time and never found any.

Amphenol, RFIndustries, Emerson.

You can't use the cheap hammy grade stuff and you need to use the proper installation tools, full cycle crimpers, etc.

Check Tessco.com You won't see fully soldered on connectors in the LMR industry for mobile installs.

 

[mmckenna]

Tram, & Browning products are cheap JUNK. Years ago, Tram, & Browning were quality US made CB radios. The best available. But with the Japanese imports, they eventually went out of business. A smart businessman bought the rights to both names, & sells junk with those names attached. He assumes [correctly] that people will buy this junk associating the names Tram, & Browning with the quality CB radios of decades gone by. A friend purchased a Tram antenna that looked very similar to a Liard TRAB4503 I had. While my Laird antenna worked great, the similar looking Tram antenna was useless, & in the dumpster within a week. He then purchased a Laird like mine, & he is very happy.

Yeah, that's why I dissected it.
I tried talking to their rep at IWCE a few years ago. Not sure he knew what he was selling.

Not sure why people will buy this just to save a dollar or two.

I'm trying to track down a Tram/Browning antenna coil so I can saw it open and take a look at the innards for comparison.

 

[w6hp]

Amphenol, RFIndustries, Emerson.

You can't use the cheap hammy grade stuff and you need to use the proper installation tools, full cycle crimpers, etc.

Check Tessco.com You won't see fully soldered on connectors in the LMR industry for mobile installs.

One thing for sure, it's going to cost you some money to do it right.

 

[mmckenna]

One thing for sure, it's going to cost you some money to do it right.

Yeah, ya' gotta pay to play.
For one off connector installs, it makes sense for most amateurs/hobbyists to just solder on the connectors. Takes some skill, but less costly in the long run.
However, I've seen some seriously buggered up solder on connectors, like I think someone tried to use a blow torch to melt the solder.

 

[N4KVE]

One thing for sure, it's going to cost you some money to do it right.

Even if it costs double to buy a quality antenna mount/coax/connector, if you keep your car 3-5 years, we’re talking pennies a day. I use Motorola cable assy’s that are white. They are specifically sold for 800/900 MHz, so they are low loss, but work great at the lower freq’s too. I find them on E-Bay for $15 each, & they come in 3 different lengths. They even come with an antenna for 800/900 MHz. None better.

 

[prcguy]

When tasked to build an entire replacement wiring harness for a military aircraft I found soldered connections were not allowed, totally illegal. Everything was crimped and pull tested with equipment that was cal checked once per week. For life or death type installs, crimp is the only way.

You won't see fully soldered on connectors in the LMR industry for mobile installs.

 

[Hans13]

When tasked to build an entire replacement wiring harness for a military aircraft I found soldered connections were not allowed, totally illegal. Everything was crimped and pull tested with equipment that was cal checked once per week. For life or death type installs, crimp is the only way.

Is there an electrical reason for crimp over solder or is it just a mechanical strength/longevity thing?

 

[N4KVE]

When tasked to build an entire replacement wiring harness for a military aircraft I found soldered connections were not allowed, totally illegal. Everything was crimped and pull tested with equipment that was cal checked once per week. For life or death type installs, crimp is the only way.

When my friend saw me soldering wires together for a power harness in my car, he told me the same thing. I told him this was for my car, & I don’t own an aircraft. I trust my soldering any day over a crimped connector. Same with PL-259 connectors. I solder my own. Nothing crimped for me.

 

[mmckenna]

Is there an electrical reason for crimp over solder or is it just a mechanical strength/longevity thing?

PRCGuy can probably answer for the aircraft side…

But, a properly crimped connector is "cold welded". In other words, if properly crimped, the components form a gas tight connection and parts of both materials will bond. There's some good photos on line where properly crimped connectors have been sawed and polished to show the effect.

The issue with solder is it's easy to get a cold joint, and the solder can wick up the stranded conductors and make for a brittle connection. Over heating will damage the insulation. Center conductor migration becomes an issue. Too much solder will wick up stranded conductors. Not enough solder and you can have a weak connection. Wrong type of solder. Wrong sized iron. Also, if you've ever tried to use a soldering iron outdoors on the side of a tower, you'll realize it's not an option.

I've done both solder and crimp. I've soldered since I was about 7 years old. I have several soldering irons with varying wattages, temperatures and tips. I know how to make a good soldered connection. I've never had a properly crimped connection fail. I have had soldered connections failed if flexed too much. Nothing against soldering, for some applications it works great. Some applications it's required. But saying one is "better" than the other completely ignores the science behind them.

It really comes down to having all the right stuff. That means a connector designed for use with the cable you are using as well as the proper crimp too. All too often what I see at work with crimp failures is the wrong size connector for the cable used or the wrong crimp tool used.

The "smash and pray" type crimpers that are sold at hardware and auto parts stores do a lousy job. Getting a full cycle crimp tool that won't release until the proper crimp is complete is important. Having the correct crimp dies is key.

Usually people that talk smack about crimped connectors are using the wrong tools and parts.

 

[Hans13]

Thanks. That's what I really like about this board and y'all!

I learned something very valuable today.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

You won't see fully soldered on connectors in the LMR industry for mobile installs.

Both Amphenol and RF Industries sell solder on UHF connectors. I think my employer has a few hundred in stock currently and they typically get used when we need a UHF connector on short notice because someone sold an Icom or Kenwood mobile and forgot to order UHF connectors not thinking about it not being a Mini-U or QMA connector.

That being said, soldering in the field (with a butane iron) sucks and you typically end up melting the dielectric. Last ditch resort. I was actually was performing mobile upgrades one time (going from first gen Kenwood P25 trunking radios to APX radios) and simply twisted off nearly every one of the UHF connectors the Kenwood dealer soldered on. Out of the 18 vehicles I did for that department I think only two were solid (still got cut off for Mini-U).

That being said, I've seen crimp on's screwed up all the same. One of my weaknesses is the two piece Mini-U connectors when using stranded core coax; get in a hurry and one strand always shorts out on me. We recently hired a sub-contractor for a 200 bus install and nearly every Mini-U connector was done wrong. The common issues were improper crimpers and installers who didn't know what they were doing (I have examples of the most common failures taken apart on my desk). Needless to say, we no longer use that sub-contractor and now require individual return loss graphs of every install.

 

[mmckenna]

Thanks. That's what I really like about this board and y'all!

I learned something very valuable today.

There are some interesting demos of what a well crimped connection looks like.
I've got some big -48vdc power systems at work that are interconnected to the battery systems with 350MCM cable. The only way to do those is by crimping. Done with the right tool, they don't come apart and can carry a crap-load of current. We've destructive tested a few by sawing them open. The strands become a solid piece of copper when put under the right amount of pressure.

As for soldering at age 7, my grandfather and my dad taught me. I have vivid memories of soldering while barefoot and accidentally dropping a blob of molten solder on top of my bare foot.
Good times...

 

[Hans13]

Yeah, soldering is in my ancient history too thanks to my father. Rarely have I had any good, professional crimper sets so that's probably why I tended to resort to solder. The few professional, purpose oriented crimeper/connector systems I used did work very well for the particular stuff we were working with.

Before my father passed, I re-did some wiring harness for him. My health was already bad and it was getting deep into Autumn. We knew he was dying and I wanted to "do it right" so I soldered all connections. It took me forever between poor health and too cold where I was working on it outside. He passed away some weeks after I finished and presented it. He probably knew that soldering wasn't the way to go, he was very knowledgeable on that stuff, but didn't want to bug me about it.

So now I know... If I am doing something right and I don't want to have to re-do it prematurely, get the right tools and crimp.