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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2017, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by fireguyastro View Post
You know what i find interesting Whistler its included why should i pay For digital voice upgrade when i can sell my scanner and buy a whistler that has it all included just saying
Because if you've had your 996P2 or 325P2 for a while and especially the 996 if you have it installed somewhere, it's much easier to drop $60 and run the upgrade than it is to take it all out, find someone to buy it for the price you want, switch models, re-learn the new device, etc. $60 is a small price to pay for new features compared to the total cost of the scanners.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 01-12-2017, 12:16 PM
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You know what i find interesting Whistler its included why should i pay For digital voice upgrade when i can sell my scanner and buy a whistler that has it all included just saying
While Whistler does provide the NXDN and DMR (MotoTRBO) upgrades at no charge on specific units, there is a difference between what Uniden is providing on DMR (for a fee) versus what Whistler supplies.

On the Uniden DMR upgrades, the scanner will successfully follow the system and it's talkgroups. The Whistler scanners (in my case, a TRX-1) instead just receive traffic on the frequency, either with a talkgroup, or wildcard. But they do not actually track the system. For the DMR systems that I am following, the voice quality between the two manufacturers is pretty much equal, no clear advantage either way. Uniden has stated that they must pay a royalty fee for each upgraded scanner. Presumably, that is why their upgrades will track the system versus only receiving it.

Uniden has not released, nor announced, a NXDN upgrade. But the TRX-1 only receives transmissions on a NXDN system. Again, it is not tracking the system, just receiving the NXDN emission code format. For one local system, the TRX is not consistent in giving the correct talkgroup ID's. Besides what appears to be the valid PD and FD dispatch channels, I'm getting four or five "false" hits on the same transmission, including showing the dispatch channels as a "wildcard" hit with no TGID at all.

For this local NXDN system, Southwest Regional Communications Center Trunking System, Cedar Hill, Desoto, Dunca, Texas - Scanner Frequencies , at this point I have not been able to monitor it at all, either by importing what is in the database, or by manually entering using the variations of NXDN systems that are present in EZ-Scan. I also do not hear any traffic if entering frequencies as conventional NXDN. The only time I receive anything on the system is by doing a limit search over the range of the site frequencies.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2017, 7:36 AM
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Cool Please explain the difference.

Can you please explain exactly what you mean by this. I am lost. Thanks.


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Originally Posted by hiegtx View Post
While Whistler does provide the NXDN and DMR (MotoTRBO) upgrades at no charge on specific units, there is a difference between what Uniden is providing on DMR (for a fee) versus what Whistler supplies.

On the Uniden DMR upgrades, the scanner will successfully follow the system and it's talkgroups. The Whistler scanners (in my case, a TRX-1) instead just receive traffic on the frequency, either with a talkgroup, or wildcard. But they do not actually track the system. For the DMR systems that I am following, the voice quality between the two manufacturers is pretty much equal, no clear advantage either way. Uniden has stated that they must pay a royalty fee for each upgraded scanner. Presumably, that is why their upgrades will track the system versus only receiving it.

Uniden has not released, nor announced, a NXDN upgrade. But the TRX-1 only receives transmissions on a NXDN system. Again, it is not tracking the system, just receiving the NXDN emission code format. For one local system, the TRX is not consistent in giving the correct talkgroup ID's. Besides what appears to be the valid PD and FD dispatch channels, I'm getting four or five "false" hits on the same transmission, including showing the dispatch channels as a "wildcard" hit with no TGID at all.

For this local NXDN system, Southwest Regional Communications Center Trunking System, Cedar Hill, Desoto, Dunca, Texas - Scanner Frequencies , at this point I have not been able to monitor it at all, either by importing what is in the database, or by manually entering using the variations of NXDN systems that are present in EZ-Scan. I also do not hear any traffic if entering frequencies as conventional NXDN. The only time I receive anything on the system is by doing a limit search over the range of the site frequencies.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 01-13-2017, 6:58 PM
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Any patch/firmware update planned to help the 996/396P@ scanners receive DMR better, like the other ones are getting?
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Old 01-14-2017, 8:50 AM
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Originally Posted by PanJurekMrJerry View Post
Can you please explain exactly what you mean by this. I am lost. Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiegtx View Post
While Whistler does provide the NXDN and DMR (MotoTRBO) upgrades at no charge on specific units, there is a difference between what Uniden is providing on DMR (for a fee) versus what Whistler supplies.

On the Uniden DMR upgrades, the scanner will successfully follow the system and it's talkgroups. The Whistler scanners (in my case, a TRX-1) instead just receive traffic on the frequency, either with a talkgroup, or wildcard. But they do not actually track the system. For the DMR systems that I am following, the voice quality between the two manufacturers is pretty much equal, no clear advantage either way. Uniden has stated that they must pay a royalty fee for each upgraded scanner. Presumably, that is why their upgrades will track the system versus only receiving it.
PanJurekMrJerry,

There is a difference between simply being able to receive a signal (like a DMR or NXDN signal) and being able to ALSO trunk-track a conversation on a Trunked Radio System that uses DMR or NXDN. What heigtx is indicating is that both scanners will simply receive the signal, but only the Uniden model heigtx mentioned will also Trunk-Track the conversations on a Trunked Radio System; apparently the Whistler model won't do this currently.

What this means is that when the conversation changes frequencies, the scanner can "keep-up" and follow the conversation to the next frequency. If the scanner will not Trunk-Track correctly, then you likely will not be able to follow the conversation as you would expect to, and will instead need to try to navigate to the new frequency on your own, hoping to get there soon enough to get the rest of the conversation.


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Originally Posted by PanJurekMrJerry View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiegtx View Post
Uniden has not released, nor announced, a NXDN upgrade. But the TRX-1 only receives transmissions on a NXDN system. Again, it is not tracking the system, just receiving the NXDN emission code format. For one local system, the TRX is not consistent in giving the correct talkgroup ID's. Besides what appears to be the valid PD and FD dispatch channels, I'm getting four or five "false" hits on the same transmission, including showing the dispatch channels as a "wildcard" hit with no TGID at all.

For this local NXDN system, Southwest Regional Communications Center Trunking System, Cedar Hill, Desoto, Dunca, Texas - Scanner Frequencies , at this point I have not been able to monitor it at all, either by importing what is in the database, or by manually entering using the variations of NXDN systems that are present in EZ-Scan. I also do not hear any traffic if entering frequencies as conventional NXDN. The only time I receive anything on the system is by doing a limit search over the range of the site frequencies.
Again, hiegtx is explaining how the Whistler scanner is not trunk-tracking correctly when monitoring a particular Trunked Radio System (TRS); but that the scanner will receive something if hiegtx does a limit-search (scan conventionally between a lower limit frequency and an upper limit frequency, instead of properly trunk-tracking a pool of TRS frequencies).

Hope this helps,
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2017, 8:56 AM
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I'm lost too I think that uniden can certainly come up with a way to provide a free upgrade , on another note DMR or TDMA is a open source there shouldn't be any royalty to pay for upgrades , NXDN and IDAS are same architecture and will communicate with each other. So why does uniden charge a fee. As far following talk groups your statements that it only picks up on a frequency and not a talk group makes no sense , can you try and explain a little better ? Because I'm looking strongly at a whistler and getting rid of my uniden equipment


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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2017, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by fireguyastro View Post
I'm lost too I think that uniden can certainly come up with a way to provide a free upgrade , on another note DMR or TDMA is a open source there shouldn't be any royalty to pay for upgrades , NXDN and IDAS are same architecture and will communicate with each other. So why does uniden charge a fee.
I cannot answer questions about Uniden's decisions about fees, only they can. Other threads have covered this; if the information in them is not satisfactory, then you might want to contact UPMan directly.


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As far following talk groups your statements that it only picks up on a frequency and not a talk group makes no sense , can you try and explain a little better ?
In the earlier post, hiegtx was the one making the observations. I was only trying to help explain to PanJurekMrJerry what hiegtx's situation is(, as I understand it).

In general, the difference between a non-trunking scanner and a trunking scanner is that both will receive the frequency in a conventional manner, but that a trunking scanner will ALSO use the Trunked Radio System's (TRS's) control-channel's signal to follow a conversation (on a specific TalkGroup) as the Frequency changes during the same conversation. A non-trunking scanner does not use the control-channel signal to follow the conversation, and simply scans to the next item in the scanner when the active frequency becomes inactive. This means that the listener will not be able to "conveniently" follow a specific conversation without manually navigating to the new active-frequency to which that conversation has moved. Basically, what hiegtx was indicating earlier was that the Whistler scanners were not trunking correctly on the DMR/NXDN signals, but the Uniden unit(s) did trunk correctly.

For anyone wanting to learn more about Trunking Basics, the RR Wiki is a good starting-point. On its Main Page, look in the upper-right section of the page, for the blue-ish box labeled "Links for Newcomers". In that box are links to Wiki articles that help explain many things, including Trunking Basics.


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Originally Posted by fireguyastro View Post
Because I'm looking strongly at a whistler and getting rid of my uniden equipment
I make no recommendation either way.

Hope this helps,
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-2017, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by fireguyastro View Post
I'm lost too I think that uniden can certainly come up with a way to provide a free upgrade , on another note DMR or TDMA is a open source there shouldn't be any royalty to pay for upgrades , NXDN and IDAS are same architecture and will communicate with each other. So why does uniden charge a fee. As far following talk groups your statements that it only picks up on a frequency and not a talk group makes no sense , can you try and explain a little better ? Because I'm looking strongly at a whistler and getting rid of my uniden equipment


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Uniden has stated that they must pay a royalty fee for each scanner updated to receive the ProVoice talkgroups, and for DMR (MotoTRBO). Because they are paying a royalty, Uniden is able to use the trunk tracking information that is covered by patented IP (Intellectual Property). My upgraded Uniden scanners do track the systems.

Whistler, on the other hand, has set their scanners and firmware to simply receive the DMR & NXDN emissions formats. From what I understand, and as you also noted, the actual emission types themselves are open standards, as is the P25 standard. The Whistler scanners, those that have upgrades available, are simply receiving the transmissions based solely on the emission code format. They are not utilizing the underlying trunking system IP that supports the system itself. While they are capable of receiving NXDN or MotoTRBO, they only receive, not track them. And,as I noted, for one of the local systems, which is NXDN, my updated TRX-1 cannot receive it other than doing a search, although it does receive, though not track, another local agency using NXDN. So by focusing on only the type of transmission, and not accessing the trunking data that controls the system's operation, Whistler can provide an upgrade with no additional fee, since their cost is simply the development cost of tweaking the firmware.

For a low activity system, this may not be an issue. However, if there are multiple users, on a higher activity system, the results may not be as satisfactory. The final decision, of course, is with the scanner owner as to whether the reception capability, without tracking, of the Whistler designs is sufficient.
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Old 01-14-2017, 12:04 PM
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I just want to note something here Mototrbo is Motorola's branding for DMR/TDMA is not owned or licensed specifically for Motorola


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Old 01-14-2017, 12:33 PM
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I just want to note something here Mototrbo is Motorola's branding for DMR/TDMA is not owned or licensed specifically for Motorola


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You're missing my point.

The emission code used, whether we are calling it DMR or MotoTRBO, is open and can be used. It's the underlying trunking system architecture, owned by Motorola, that is not an open, public, standard. That's what Uniden states they pay a licensing fee (royalty) on, not the simple reception of the format itself.
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Old 01-14-2017, 9:36 PM
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You know I was reading the specs on the whistler tx-2 I believe it is and it advertises that it follows capacity plus , and all the hytera and Motorola trunking formats in DMR should that be the case UNIDEN has a great competitor


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Old 01-14-2017, 10:44 PM
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And the people that designed stated otherwise. That it scans channels looking for talkgroups not following the CONTROL CHANNEL. Unidens follow the CONTROL CHANNELS that is why you have to the LNC's for Uniden and enter all channels for Whistlers.
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Old 01-16-2017, 2:49 PM
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I bought the DMR upgrade for my 996p2 and am very pleased with it even found a couple towns PD (piggott, Ark & Blythville, Ark) and one counties sheriff (Mississippi County, Ark) near me using it along with several businesses and schools... can't wait for NXDN
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Old 01-18-2017, 4:36 AM
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All I want to know does it DISPLAY, in DMR, the TG NUMBER while searching? CC and slot....got it....cool.
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Old 01-24-2017, 11:26 AM
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All I want to know does it DISPLAY, in DMR, the TG NUMBER while searching? CC and slot....got it....cool.
Yes the whistler trx can be set up to display the TGID, CC and slot while a dmr transmission is being received. I had mine set to also display the active voice frequency as well. Some of these elements are displayed in an alternating fashion and the timing can be customized.
On the 436hp it can display the TGID, slot number during reception but you need to enter analyze mode to see color code. I haven't found a setting to display the active voice frequency on the 436.
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Old 02-02-2017, 11:54 AM
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I paid $450 for my TRX-1 on Walmart.com.

Who would pay full MSRP on a scanner, when you can get them, with warranty, from other reputable dealers at a much lower cost? I didn't see the 536 on Walmart.com for $450. Even if I did, to have the same modes (if/when available) it would be considerably more.

My point stands, they are comparable in price at purchase point, and sometimes the TRX-1 is lower in price out of the box. -However, I would have to pay for DMR and (when) NXDN with a uniden, I would not with a Whistler. That makes the uniden more expensive when you get nickel and dime'd (Or $50'd and $60'd) for each digital format that whistler offers for free.

Shop around, don't base your logic on "MSRP". And I didn't base mine on fake amazon blitz's, etc.
Yeah, and I paid under $350 for my 996P2...so you did pay for it...so there...;c)
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Old 02-02-2017, 12:06 PM
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You're missing my point.

The emission code used, whether we are calling it DMR or MotoTRBO, is open and can be used. It's the underlying trunking system architecture, owned by Motorola, that is not an open, public, standard. That's what Uniden states they pay a licensing fee (royalty) on, not the simple reception of the format itself.
And to expand on that, there IS an open trunking protocol for DMR. Normal conventional DMR is called Tier II. Trunked DMR is called Tier III, and it is an open ETSI standard. This is why I do not call MotoTrbo true DMR. They have added their own proprietary functions that other mfg's can't use. (There are other functions as well.)

Expect to see true Tier III systems showing up. There's already some on the air...
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