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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2017, 4:24 AM
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Originally Posted by mmckenna View Post
With all the money I saved, I put up a single channel conventional repeater at a secondary site. Anyone that needs to interoperate with us can put their own radios on the analog repeater without issue. Interoperability and a backup system all for one low price.
Is that patched in to the NexEdge, or is it monitored by dispatchers?

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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 02-21-2017, 11:58 AM
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Is that patched in to the NexEdge, or is it monitored by dispatchers?

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It's on the dispatch console along with all our other radio systems. They monitor it and can patch as needed.
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Old 02-22-2017, 1:26 AM
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Originally Posted by namhcor View Post
Here in the NYC Metropolitan area, Motorola is losing out in the commercial and public safety markets to manufacturers like Yaesu/Vertex, Kenwood, Canadian Tait and Chinese Tytera which all do DMR format.
Canadian Tait?

Tait is a company out of New Zealand.

Their offices for North America are in Houston TX. They are now marketed through Harris.
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Old 02-22-2017, 1:30 AM
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Originally Posted by unleashedff248 View Post
BK comes close with ruggedness, but nowhere near the feature set of the Motorola (on the DPH/GPH not KNG) . Icom was pure junk. They're not built like mission critical radios. And the audio was horrendous.
Different experience here. I have sold thousands of the Icom P25 trunking radios. Very solid. Had them roll off the top of a tanker at 60 MPH. Found it in the ditch days later, it worked.

Tait is a tremendous winner. GREAT products.

Burger King? You can have that junk.
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Old 02-22-2017, 5:44 PM
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Different experience here. I have sold thousands of the Icom P25 trunking radios. Very solid. Had them roll off the top of a tanker at 60 MPH. Found it in the ditch days later, it worked.
We have many trunking units in our FD. No complaints.
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Old 02-22-2017, 8:46 PM
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Doesn't Motorola own Vertex?
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Old 02-22-2017, 9:35 PM
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Doesn't Motorola own Vertex?

Arrrgh. Yes, the corporate structure that owns Motorola Solutions also owns Vertex. They are distinctly different companies, just like Stanley owns Craftsman - But Stanley tools are certainly not Craftsman.
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Old 02-23-2017, 9:56 AM
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Originally Posted by namhcor View Post
Here in the NYC Metropolitan area, Motorola is losing out in the commercial and public safety markets to manufacturers like Yaesu/Vertex, Kenwood, Canadian Tait and Chinese Tytera which all do DMR format.
I'm guessing you mean Hytera, not Tytera. They are both Chinese, and they both offer DMR radios, but that's the end of the similarity.
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Old 03-02-2017, 8:29 AM
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As far as 'mission critical' equipment, the crew of the International Space Station, who definitely have the budget for the best equipment considering it costs more to deliver it to orbit than the actual equipment costs, use Kenwood ham gear.

TM-D710g IIRC.

They also exclusively use IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad laptops.
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Old 03-02-2017, 10:08 AM
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Right, but that's just for the ARISS stuff. It's not their primary form of communications.
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Old 03-02-2017, 10:33 AM
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Canadian Tait
Tait is not Canadian, the company is headquartered in New Zealand.
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Old 03-03-2017, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Ramv36 View Post
As far as 'mission critical' equipment, the crew of the International Space Station, who definitely have the budget for the best equipment considering it costs more to deliver it to orbit than the actual equipment costs, use Kenwood ham gear.

TM-D710g IIRC.

They also exclusively use IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad laptops.
That is Ham gear not "mission critical equipment". They certainly do not use Kenwood for their mission gear.
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Old 03-03-2017, 8:47 PM
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That is Ham gear not "mission critical equipment". They certainly do not use Kenwood for their mission gear.
Exactly, the real "mission critical" hardware is the same you'd expect to find on any military craft: Harris, Rockwell-Collins, etc. Not ham toy radios.
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Old 03-07-2017, 8:23 AM
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I have only been in the radio business for 2 years. We are a Motorola shop by default. Our second choice is Kenwood. I personally am not responsible for Public Safety sales but we sold, installed and maintain our county's Motorola P25 system.
As a relative noobie in LMR, my observations have been that there is a Motorola radios do take a beating with less repair issues. The price point is much higher. Most of my Moto customers continue to buy because thats what they have always had and generally are satisfied. They are much harder to sell to smaller customers with a limited budget.
Kenwood radios have superior audio quality in analog and digital. I believe the Nexedge audio is superior to DMR in general. In rough environments, I see a lot of the lower tier Kenwoods back for repair.
We also sell Vertex. Here is a radio thats hard to beat. I rarely have any service or repair issues with them and the price is half that of a comparable Moto. Pricing is more competitive on Vertex, so we dont get the same margins. But its a solid radio at a great price.

The future of MSI? I dont know. But I think they feel they can survive on their name. Not every subscriber is willing to pay double the price to get the name. They make a lot of decisions that leave me scratching my head. Like the upcoming 10 day shipping shutdown so they can move the shipping facility across town. Who thought this was a good decision?
We havent done much with Harris or Tait lately, so I dont know much about them.
To summarize, if price is not an issue, if I want to sell with confidence that the product will hold up and work when it needs to, I sell Motorola. But they are going to have to get with the program and stay competitive if they are going to survive. PTT over LTE is right around the corner.
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Old 03-07-2017, 9:54 AM
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PTT over LTE is right around the corner.
It's more than that. It's here. I've seen products from Motorola (I forget their product name) and Harris (BeOn) which use a gateway server into a P25 network, but port the trunked system out over LTE using the same vocoding techniques so that there is no distortion. There are also enhanced pass-throughs, such as signaling, unit ID, emergency ID, etc. Right now.

I've also seen developmental LTE devices in LMR form factors, and some emerging standards my continue to require a traditional LMR form factor, but would be silent on the protocols used. There's really no practical reason why it won't work. Once voice is vocoded and packetized, it doesn't care if it's transmitted in a P25 frame or as packets over LTE.

The biggest selling point for LMR remains its ability to remain network agnostic. I use this example when I speak with IT-heads about the future of communications: you are a firefighter stuck in a room you can't find your way out of. Help is on the other side of the wall. In an LMR system on simplex, you are transmitting through the wall directly to the people who can get you out. In a networked system, they may have 4 bars and you might have zero.

The hangups for RoLTE remain a SIMPLE off-network solution that doesn't look like IP pinball, latency, and reliable penetration (which the apparent solution seems to be 5G points of presence). We'll wait to see what NFPA in-building codes say about networked microwave POP, but simple simplex is still (in my view, at least) a lifesaver.

Here's a thing to ponder - are we heading toward a network-dependent future where people will carry FRS radios as "backup" communications?
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2017, 6:47 AM
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Here's a thing to ponder - are we heading toward a network-dependent future where people will carry FRS radios as "backup" communications?
I don't think so. But we will see a convergence. The first LTE device that can also do LMR will be a true game changer.
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Old 03-09-2017, 7:54 AM
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I don't think so. But we will see a convergence. The first LTE device that can also do LMR will be a true game changer.
Rest assured, it's in beta. Modern equipment is SDR and a new waveform and frequency range in a suitably engineered device is only a firmware flash.

Another thing to ponder -

Maybe Nextel failed to take lasting hold in the public safety market because Morgan failed to commission his manufacturer to develop a device that could use LMR and iDEN in the same radio (entirely possible 12 years ago) and make personality 1 be analog, personality 2 be P25, and personality 3 be iDEN. Rather, he chose a clunky off-network solution that was just a munge of the DTR ISM SS protocol within the device that was incapable of blending with legacy systems, whether for primary operations, mutual aid, or interoperability. Would they have lasted longer if they marketed "we are the extra capacity and roaming solution for your trunked system!"?
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Last edited by 902; 03-09-2017 at 8:02 AM.. Reason: Side thought...
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2017, 3:13 PM
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We're in a unique position locally, because of how our agency and neighboring agencies interoperate. We and our contract agencies are all on VHF, and the 2 major cities we surround, and one minor city, are all on UHF. Due to this, we have specified a dual-band radio for all of our patrol vehicles and personnel. All of the vehicle radios are Kenwood, but nobody but Motorola makes an affordable, easy to use multi-band radio (Harris, I'm looking at you for how horrible your UI and design are).

Until someone other than Motorola makes a multi-band handheld radio that's as easy to operate as the APX7000/APX8000, then that's what we're buying.
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Old 03-23-2017, 5:59 PM
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We're in a unique position locally, because of how our agency and neighboring agencies interoperate. We and our contract agencies are all on VHF, and the 2 major cities we surround, and one minor city, are all on UHF. Due to this, we have specified a dual-band radio for all of our patrol vehicles and personnel. All of the vehicle radios are Kenwood, but nobody but Motorola makes an affordable, easy to use multi-band radio (Harris, I'm looking at you for how horrible your UI and design are).

Until someone other than Motorola makes a multi-band handheld radio that's as easy to operate as the APX7000/APX8000, then that's what we're buying.
The answer is the Harris XL-200P tri-band with LTE. You can use their internet app BeOn with it. No need for an in-building repeater just put a wifi router in and switch to their BeOn wifi app in the radio and you are talking on your system.
If you are out of range of your system just switch the LTE mode on and you can be on the system anywhere.
Voice replay of last 5 messages.
You can store many different radio personalities in the radio (codeplugs for Moto users) and activate them with a few button pushes.
FPP without a dongle or special flashcode.
All encryption modes including ADP (RC4)
Louder and more clear audio since it has a woofer and tweeter speaker.
The UI works fine and just takes a little bit for those used to the Moto UI to get comfortable with and finally it is much cheaper than the APX8000.
There is a reason the military is using Harris radios for their tactical missions.

Last edited by carbineone; 03-23-2017 at 6:08 PM..
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Old 03-23-2017, 7:51 PM
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BeOn is pretty cool.

I will say their programming software is "different" than Motorola, but once
You get use to the way it operates and the differences, the Unity line is pretty good. Sounds better than Motorola (who is having audio issues with the 8000) and as stated - cheaper while doing the same thing.
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