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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2017, 4:21 PM
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Originally Posted by ten13 View Post
(a) Motorola will make a BIG come back, and their stock prices will rise, as they convince unknowing police and fire chiefs that they MUST HAVE all these changes IMMEDIATELY (otherwise Kenwood will make them a better offer), and the chiefs' two-year old radio system that they just spent $xx million on "must" be replaced;

(
It is pretty obvious that you don't like Motorola. However your comment above makes you look like a fool. I had a brief look at the PDF in question, and nowhere did I see anything about involving a manufacture.

Can you provide to us what part of that PDF backs up your statement about Motorola FORCING users to buy all new equipment ?

I fail to see a plan that is published that discusses having a common frequency, tone and channel naming plan somehow will FORCE folks buy all new radios. Can you elaborate on this ?
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2017, 5:35 PM
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"Can you provide to us what part of that PDF backs up your statement about Motorola FORCING users to buy all new equipment ?"

Be in the room when Mot makes their sales pitch (as I have) and listen to what they say.

It was only until afterwards when "cooler head prevailed" that the agency's bosses realized that their speech of "necessity" was ONLY a sales pitch, and told Mot, "We'll get back to you...."
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 04-15-2017, 7:02 PM
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Originally Posted by R8000 View Post
It is pretty obvious that you don't like Motorola. However your comment above makes you look like a fool. I had a brief look at the PDF in question, and nowhere did I see anything about involving a manufacture.
If you've been in the industry for a while, you'll see how Motorola Sales does business.
All opportunities are utilized to sell new radios, even when there isn't an issue with existing equipment.
-Many reports of small radio shops, including Motorola authorized shops, telling customers back in 2012 and earlier that all new digital radios were required to meet the FCC mandated narrowbanding. This was around the time that MotoTrbo came out, and there was a big push to sell new systems. Didn't matter if they needed new radios or not.
-When it was time to reband my 800MHz SmartNet system, we had a big meeting with Motorola to plan it out. There were 3 technical people from Motorola in the room, and no less than 5 sales people. 20 minutes of the meeting was discussing the work of physically rebanding the equipment. The remaining time (until I cut them off) was them trying to sell us an entirely new P25 800MHz system. Waste of my time and would have been a huge waste of taxpayers dollars.

Liking Motorola or not, that doesn't have anything to do with it. Motorola makes mostly good equipment. The issue with Motorola is their sales tactics, which many of us have been directly exposed to. Motorola sales is infamous for shady dealings.

His concern echoes mine, In what way will sleazy sales people (Motorola included) utilize this mandate to sell more radios?
Yes, we all understand that nothing in the document requires new radio equipment, that's beside the point. The issue is when city/county/state/agency coffers are packed full of an endless supply of taxpayers dollars, some sales people will do anything, and I do mean anything, to get their grubby little paws on it.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2017, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmckenna View Post
If you've been in the industry for a while, you'll see how Motorola Sales does business.
All opportunities are utilized to sell new radios, even when there isn't an issue with existing equipment.
-Many reports of small radio shops, including Motorola authorized shops, telling customers back in 2012 and earlier that all new digital radios were required to meet the FCC mandated narrowbanding. This was around the time that MotoTrbo came out, and there was a big push to sell new systems. Didn't matter if they needed new radios or not.
-When it was time to reband my 800MHz SmartNet system, we had a big meeting with Motorola to plan it out. There were 3 technical people from Motorola in the room, and no less than 5 sales people. 20 minutes of the meeting was discussing the work of physically rebanding the equipment. The remaining time (until I cut them off) was them trying to sell us an entirely new P25 800MHz system. Waste of my time and would have been a huge waste of taxpayers dollars.

Liking Motorola or not, that doesn't have anything to do with it. Motorola makes mostly good equipment. The issue with Motorola is their sales tactics, which many of us have been directly exposed to. Motorola sales is infamous for shady dealings.

His concern echoes mine, In what way will sleazy sales people (Motorola included) utilize this mandate to sell more radios?
Yes, we all understand that nothing in the document requires new radio equipment, that's beside the point. The issue is when city/county/state/agency coffers are packed full of an endless supply of taxpayers dollars, some sales people will do anything, and I do mean anything, to get their grubby little paws on it.
Back 10 years ago or so, they (/\/\ sales) actually tried to tell us that VHF-Hi in its entirety was being handed over to Civil Avaition, so of course we needed to buy their hyper-expensive radios, lest we be left in the lurch...but, there being at the time no pager solutions able to work with digital trunked radio, that we'd still have our VHF frequencies for paging...ONLY. When I called them on this nonsense, the only way to describe what transpired would be...chaos.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2017, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ten13 View Post
"Can you provide to us what part of that PDF backs up your statement about Motorola FORCING users to buy all new equipment ?"

Be in the room when Mot makes their sales pitch (as I have) and listen to what they say.

It was only until afterwards when "cooler head prevailed" that the agency's bosses realized that their speech of "necessity" was ONLY a sales pitch, and told Mot, "We'll get back to you...."
Ahh...so then there is no part of the OP's PDF that says anything about Motorola forcing anybody to buy their radios.

Just an attempt to derail the thread is all.

Let's keep the topic centered around the interop PDF that was provided.
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2017, 12:23 AM
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Last edited by RFI-EMI-GUY; 04-16-2017 at 1:02 AM.. Reason: Self: Remaining on topic!
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2017, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by dcr_inc View Post
A law enforcement officer shots his gun in the line of duty an average 2 times in his career but uses his radio everyday multiple times. He must qualify to use his gun every year, be able to tear it down and reassemble it in a specified amount of time but only gets on the average, 1 hour of training on the tool he uses everyday.
Better, recurrent training is what is needed to make interop work, not more frequencies that officer don't know how to get to..
You nailed it! I have recommended the same thing, doing a presentation to Chiefs and than each department. I get laughed at...

We are in a 3 county area that uses UHF Analog for most of the larger cities/villages in one county, but yet the county sheriff and then smaller towns (500 to 2K in pop) use an 800 EDACS system, then add in the main city in our region is using 800 P25 (Phase 1) while ISP and some others are on 700/800 P25 (Phase 2 very soon-Starcom21), while my county is UHF with 4-5 poor man voters (select tower that will receive the radio and even then it won't receive) and with the mess, all fire departments are still on VHF-HI.

EMA in our area has a Certified COML person, but yet no one has educated, or worked on a solid frequency plan for the 3 counties that work together on an almost daily basis. Sure they have ISPERN and IREACH, but most of the cars never have the radio on or listening, there is/was a UHF analog repeater in one county that covers all 3 counties, all the local cities in the county use UHF, the county on EDACS has the UHF channels in their cars but yet to create a mutual aid channel is beyond all of them. I have spent the better part of a year talking to the site owner (county sheriff) and EMA in that county and while I get things move low, it seems to be at a stand still, add in the EMA wants the freq for themselves, they are parting from IFOG and APCO and want DMR and not P25 to create a simulcast system, while they have a viable HI-Band on analog (though it has P25 but not programmed) that just needs a better strategit site placement.

Until someone decides to go with the standards in place, and leaves their druthers (much of the EMA steering is Ham related) I don't see anyone getting their poo together.

Add in the local radio shops all want to sell their flavor of digital instead of a standard and the shops seem to refuse to work with each other, again a mess that is really a shame and borders on a crime. A local PD needed backup on an armed robbery arrest, calling alternate agency got them a 15 minute on hold at dispatch, and ended up using his CAD to find someone.

Even the EMA team in my county has no band plan, wants all the EMA members to get a Ham ticket and use that instead of the sanctioned freq set aside.

I fully back DHS/IFOG on trying to standardize things. While I am sure I will get flamed, it seems even those posting here don't find a value in the standards trying to be set.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2017, 12:27 PM
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Is not using amateur radio for official use illegal? Sigh. Folks just wont get it. Anyways


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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2017, 3:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ11DLN View Post
Back 10 years ago or so, they (/\/\ sales) actually tried to tell us that VHF-Hi in its entirety was being handed over to Civil Avaition, so of course we needed to buy their hyper-expensive radios, lest we be left in the lurch...but, there being at the time no pager solutions able to work with digital trunked radio, that we'd still have our VHF frequencies for paging...ONLY. When I called them on this nonsense, the only way to describe what transpired would be...chaos.
Yeah, I've had people try and tell me that, too. That we -must- go to 700MHz P25 phase 2 full trunking system.

No.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2017, 3:05 PM
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Originally Posted by aussierescueil View Post
I fully back DHS/IFOG on trying to standardize things. While I am sure I will get flamed, it seems even those posting here don't find a value in the standards trying to be set.
I've programmed -all- of our public safety radios with the appropriate interoperability channels.

I've explained what they are for time and time again. Getting officers to turn the knob on the radio is impossible.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2017, 8:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mmckenna View Post
Yeah, I've had people try and tell me that, too. That we -must- go to 700MHz P25 phase 2 full trunking system.



No.


The local (Motorola) system has more VHF sites on it than 800 MHz but was originally built out as 800 MHz. Mother M is quoting like crazy to get the VHF side Phase 2 capable since majority of those sites are only 5 channels sites (versus 15 to 28 channel sites on 800 MHz).


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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2017, 12:32 PM
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A friend of mine is on a SAR team in San Bernardino CA, when he's coordinating landing a helicopter he ends up using CALCORD most of the time because it's been around in CA for a long time and everyone can find it.
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