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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2017, 8:58 PM
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Originally Posted by mule1075 View Post
He runs the joint so he posted it.Thick skin people have posted worse.

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Links here that I've accessed before were usually related to scanners or radio equipment. This one caught me off guard and I'm glad that my daughter didn't hear it.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2017, 9:10 PM
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Originally Posted by tumegpc View Post
I'm glad that my daughter didn't hear it.
You'd have to write a report to the internet police
  #43 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2017, 9:16 PM
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Originally Posted by princessthelus View Post
The fact if you really wanted to, for the money you spend on a TRX series, you could spend on a system that could begin the process of AES decryption.
BEGIN the process, because the system admin will change the encryption/decryption key you're looking for long before the process finishes. Technically, yes, you can always begin the process. Finishing and actually decoding, now that's different.
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Last edited by fredva; 08-08-2017 at 9:24 PM..
  #44 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2017, 9:43 PM
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Originally Posted by MOTEX View Post
...Communist states like Virginia forbid the use of scanners and radar detectors for the same excuse...
The radar detector ban is an accurate statement, however I can assure you Virginia has no such ban on scanners- unless it's in furtherance of a crime. And I am OK with that.

You also reference firearms... you brought up Virginia, but don't come through Maryland with a gun to to get to Virginia. Better go around through West Virginia!
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2017, 9:52 PM
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Originally Posted by fredva View Post
BEGIN the process, because the system admin will change the encryption/decryption key you're looking for long before the process finishes. Technically, yes, you can always begin the process. Finishing and actually decoding, now that's different.
You do bring a valid point. let's take example of Lincoln, Nebraska's New System. Which would probably be P25 Phase II. The control channel spits out more information about each radio due to the fact every radio needs to be timed with the base system. When OTA programming occurs you get about 30 seconds of a plethora of traffic analysis and clear text. Things like what model of radio is being used what algorithm the radio needs to switch to, what talk groups are encrypted, stuff like that. If you know the first two, all you have to do is get a cheap broken model of that radio and use a jtag or some type of way to read the rom on the radio to extract the algorithm. With that information you could program OP25 with that and just go nuts listening to that nice system they encrypted. This is a man in the middle attack. To brute force would take a machine build for bitcoin mining with the latest and fastest cards AMD or Nvidia can make in parallel. The best thing about GPU's are that they are always getting faster due to more demand from gamers. 256 AES might be a joke about cracking ten years ago but they need to double the encoding to 512, but remember digital narrow-band can only send so much information before you lose everything. You can't send nothing but packet headers and expect to send other bits for voice and a small amount of data to the control channel. To be blunt as possible, If there is a will there is a way. BTW is is all for educational purposes and not to be tried on any system at any time. I have to cover my butt with that statement.
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2017, 10:27 PM
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Honestly I would be okay with encryption if they allowed media and stringers such as myself access to a live audio stream.

I see some complaints regarding people showing up at scenes but that is going to happen regardless if they live nearby or overheard it on their scanner apps.

encryption can take out some transparency in their work. Me personally I use several scanners and MTS2000s while I am out stringing calls for content. I am thankfully my area is not looking at doing this as it would kill business without access to live scanner audio.

No matter what they do there are always going to be "idiots".

Besides when it comes to the media, some make the mistake of putting out unconfirmed details from scanners and that's on them. The people I work with will hear things and work to confirm them before stating them as fact. Of course I work with good media folks.
  #47 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2017, 10:34 AM
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Most LEOs use a cell phone for a portion of their communications, too. I hear no one challenging the lack of access to those communications - and THAT is the direction public safety communications are evolving towards (FIRSTNET).

How do these private cellular communications and FIRSTNET affect this discussion as the vendors push towards dispatch over cellular?
  #48 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2017, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredva View Post
BEGIN the process, because the system admin will change the encryption/decryption key you're looking for long before the process finishes. Technically, yes, you can always begin the process. Finishing and actually decoding, now that's different.
You misspelled the heat death of the universe will occur.


Quote:
Originally Posted by princessthelus View Post
You do bring a valid point. let's take example of Lincoln, Nebraska's New System.
Hm, Random Capitalization - never a good sign...


Quote:
Which would probably be P25 Phase II. The control channel spits out more information about each radio due to the fact every radio needs to be timed with the base system.
Nice jibber jabber. An interesting combination of meaningless and incorrect.


Quote:
When OTA programming occurs you get about 30 seconds of a plethora of traffic analysis and clear text.
Interesting statement, since OTAR messages are supposed to be encrypted.


Quote:
Things like what model of radio is being used what algorithm the radio needs to switch to, what talk groups are encrypted, stuff like that. If you know the first two, all you have to do is get a cheap broken model of that radio and use a jtag or some type of way to read the rom on the radio to extract the algorithm.
"Extract the algorithm"? The encryption algorithms in radios are already known. The U.S. government will even send you spiffy PDF files upon request. So why exactly are we reading them out of a radio's firmware?


Quote:
With that information you could program OP25 with that and just go nuts listening to that nice system they encrypted. This is a man in the middle attack.
Wut? To be the man in the middle, there has to be two parties for you to get between. The first is the radio system's OTAR facilities, but the second ain't your "cheap broken model of that radio" radio. The OTAR targets are the legitimate subscriber units and you don't have any of their key encryption keys (KEKs), so you won't be decrypting any of their OTAR messages. So there's no middle for you to be standing in.


Quote:
To brute force would take a machine build for bitcoin mining with the latest and fastest cards AMD or Nvidia can make in parallel.
No. That's like saying to become the world's richest multi-billionaire, just save a penny every day. Neither venture will succeed.


Quote:
The best thing about GPU's are that they are always getting faster due to more demand from gamers.
The best thing about AES is that the designers were well aware of technology's tendency to advance in leaps and bounds.


Quote:
256 AES might be a joke about cracking ten years ago but they need to double the encoding to 512, but remember digital narrow-band can only send so much information before you lose everything. You can't send nothing but packet headers and expect to send other bits for voice and a small amount of data to the control channel.
More nonsense. AES keys aren't sent over the air during normal traffic, so who cares how large they are? They don't suck up your precious bandwidth. I can't even imagine the soup of half understood facts and outright BS that has been fed to you to lead you to make such craptacular statements.


Quote:
To be blunt as possible, If there is a will there is a way.
Ah right, if you want it bad enough, you can do it. Ok, make 5+5 equal 3. Take all the time you need.
  #49 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2017, 1:40 PM
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Originally Posted by slicerwizard View Post
You misspelled the heat death of the universe will occur.



Hm, Random Capitalization - never a good sign...


Nice jibber jabber. An interesting combination of meaningless and incorrect.


Interesting statement, since OTAR messages are supposed to be encrypted.


"Extract the algorithm"? The encryption algorithms in radios are already known. The U.S. government will even send you spiffy PDF files upon request. So why exactly are we reading them out of a radio's firmware?


Wut? To be the man in the middle, there has to be two parties for you to get between. The first is the radio system's OTAR facilities, but the second ain't your "cheap broken model of that radio" radio. The OTAR targets are the legitimate subscriber units and you don't have any of their key encryption keys (KEKs), so you won't be decrypting any of their OTAR messages. So there's no middle for you to be standing in.


No. That's like saying to become the world's richest multi-billionaire, just save a penny every day. Neither venture will succeed.


The best thing about AES is that the designers were well aware of technology's tendency to advance in leaps and bounds.


More nonsense. AES keys aren't sent over the air during normal traffic, so who cares how large they are? They don't suck up your precious bandwidth. I can't even imagine the soup of half understood facts and outright BS that has been fed to you to lead you to make such craptacular statements.


Ah right, if you want it bad enough, you can do it. Ok, make 5+5 equal 3. Take all the time you need.

+1

Man in the middle eh? sounds like some sort of kinky game.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2017, 4:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ORION_NE View Post
Very much
Yep, streaming public safety is the probably is the #1 reason for encryption. Broadcastify, do I need to say more?.
  #51 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2017, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rs989 View Post
Yep, streaming public safety is the probably is the #1 reason for encryption. Broadcastify, do I need to say more?.
It's not.

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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2017, 2:46 PM
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Exclamation Re: encryption

If you disagree with encrypting Public Service comms. You should be outraged at your law enforcement agencies using "Stingray" to monitor your personal cell phone calls. If that ain't a violation of your rights, what is?
  #53 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2017, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ORION_NE View Post
. Both are putting officers and peoples lives in jeopardy.
Bull.

Every encroachment on freedom begins with #officersafety or #terrorism.. It's utter BS... When's the last time an officer was killed because of a scanner or phone app? I'll wait....


Quote:
Anyone who can't see this is either blind, stupid or both
Calling people names in lieu of evidence just means you have nothing to support your position, and therefore lost any argument before it began...
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2017, 12:29 PM
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You also reference firearms... you brought up Virginia, but don't come through Maryland with a gun to to get to Virginia. Better go around through West Virginia!
LOL...

I was driving from Ft. Bragg to Ft. Lewis....Stopping near Hagerstown to see some family..It was quicker to go through MD, I opted for the 2 hour detour through VA and WVA...

and, that's coming from someone who lived in MD for 25 years....
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2017, 12:36 PM
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DCs MDC system was unencrypted...

Messages were caught being sent across their MDCs, that included racist/sexist messages..

What does DC do?

Encrypt their MDCs...

Don't tell me it's about safety, that's complete BS.. it IS about accountability, and the fact that WE the people tell the gov't what to do, not the other way around.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2017, 1:20 PM
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Encryption could put the public in danger too. If someone who is a scanner hobbyist hears about a dangerous crime that just happened in his neighborhood and sees the suspect, he would know not to approach and call the authorities. Let's not also forget police departments and city management in a lot of towns are afraid to tell the public about high crime area's due to political reasons. Scanners let the public know what is going on in their neighborhood without having to rely on a censored press .
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2017, 6:23 PM
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Encryption could put the public in danger too. If someone who is a scanner hobbyist hears about a dangerous crime that just happened in his neighborhood and sees the suspect, he would know not to approach and call the authorities. Let's not also forget police departments and city management in a lot of towns are afraid to tell the public about high crime area's due to political reasons. Scanners let the public know what is going on in their neighborhood without having to rely on a censored press .
Bingo.
  #58 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2017, 6:31 PM
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Originally Posted by princessthelus View Post
Encryption could put the public in danger too. If someone who is a scanner hobbyist hears about a dangerous crime that just happened in his neighborhood and sees the suspect, he would know not to approach and call the authorities. Let's not also forget police departments and city management in a lot of towns are afraid to tell the public about high crime area's due to political reasons. Scanners let the public know what is going on in their neighborhood without having to rely on a censored press .
Umm nope try again.

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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2017, 7:11 PM
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Just to add,

Within the past few weeks they have switched all of our law enforcement Talkgroups to full encryption. This covers Johnson City Tennessee Police Dept and Washington County Sheriff Dept. Up until then all of the alternate, tactical TGs was encrypted.

There was no warning that it was coming they just did it.

Their main reason "they said" for switching was....................increased use of online streaming scanner apps that criminals are using to help them.
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old 08-23-2017, 10:23 PM
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Umm nope try again.

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