Weird Med channel event happened

[N1SQB]

I heard Ansonia Resc. Med. Svc. Ambulance depart from near my house. They were enroute Priority 1 ALS to Griffin. No sooner than they stated that to CMED, they were told to use med ch-1. I switched and heard Griffin say they were on and to "go ahead". I heard nothing,I mean dead space for a minute then I heard Griffin say "see you when you get here". I didnt have time to go up 5 mhz but what gives? Normally you dont have to go to the input on Southcentral. Have there been any changes?

Manny

 

[Dave520]

I know here in SouthWest region you have to go to the input side to hear the ambulances. Maybe South Central is doing the same now.

 

[N1SQB]

Southwest has always been like that. I lived in Stratford for 10 years. I was lucky to live near the Burger King area which was usualy the path the ambulances took enroute to Bridgeport Hosp. I would get lucky and be able to up 5 Mhz. and get the ambulance side of things. I never had that problem here with southcentral. I even heard a patch to midstate medical by a campion car so I am really stumped. I'll keep monitoring and see.

Manny

 

[izzyj4]

Manny, more than likely the repeater was taken down / was not turned back on by C-MED so you only heard the 463.0000 side of Med 1. I know earlier they had a "mixer off" message on the MED channel with one of the valley units and more than likely they didn;t turn it back on.

Also when I was working there, where the MED 1 module on the console is located, it was very easy to hit the repeater on/off button without knowing. Did that many times with books or other items on the desktop.

 

[N1SQB]

Thanks Izzy!

Thanks for the insight! Thats is probably what happened because things are back to normal now...PHEW....
I was afraid that we were going to be like Southwest for a second there......
By the way, we still have to get together for that coffee.....Let me know....

Manny

 

[ecps92]

C-MED's don't always need to use or enable a Repeater. The Hospital hears the side they need and the Ambulance hears the side they need.

Just like Taxi Cab's.

I heard Ansonia Resc. Med. Svc. Ambulance depart from near my house. They were enroute Priority 1 ALS to Griffin. No sooner than they stated that to CMED, they were told to use med ch-1. I switched and heard Griffin say they were on and to "go ahead". I heard nothing,I mean dead space for a minute then I heard Griffin say "see you when you get here". I didnt have time to go up 5 mhz but what gives? Normally you dont have to go to the input on Southcentral. Have there been any changes?

Manny

 

[KC8YTK]

Simplex ALS channels

As an EMT, I tend to like simplex ALS/HERN frequencies because your transmissions are generally long and involve a lot of patient information. Furthermore, by the time you're ready to give your report, you're usually within simplex range of the hospital anyway. I HATE using a MEDCOM or phone patches to talk to an ER especially if I need my hands free or don't have much time to talk on the radio.

Also folks, I hate to be that guy but there's some discussion about the legality of listening to ALS/HERN channels because they are used only for the communication of privlidged patient information. The legal issues don't come from the FCC but questions that arise from the Health Insurance Providers' Protection Act (HIPPA, that thing you read or signed at your doctor's office or the hospital and is a major pain in the ass). If you choose to listen and live in an area where names are given with dispatches, PLEASE don't repeat anything you hear on these frequencies...

 

[garys]

As an EMT, I tend to like simplex ALS/HERN frequencies because your transmissions are generally long and involve a lot of patient information. Furthermore, by the time you're ready to give your report, you're usually within simplex range of the hospital anyway. I HATE using a MEDCOM or phone patches to talk to an ER especially if I need my hands free or don't have much time to talk on the radio.

If your notification is more than 30 seconds long, you're talking too much. All the hospital wants to know is how sick the patient is so that they can mobilize necessary resources. Everything else can be given at triage or in the trauma room.

Also folks, I hate to be that guy but there's some discussion about the legality of listening to ALS/HERN channels because they are used only for the communication of privlidged patient information. The legal issues don't come from the FCC but questions that arise from the Health Insurance Providers' Protection Act (HIPPA, that thing you read or signed at your doctor's office or the hospital and is a major pain in the ass). If you choose to listen and live in an area where names are given with dispatches, PLEASE don't repeat anything you hear on these frequencies...

First, it's the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA). Second, HIPAA specifically excludes emergency communications, electronic or in person from the provisions of the law. Third, HIPAA applies to health care workers and others who transmit confidential electronic data. It requires them to maintain security of that data, it does not require the patient, family, scanner listeners, or anyone else not to listen or not to repeat what they hear. Apparently you didn't read that thing at the doctors office when you signed it.

Back to the topic at hand. The UHF Med channels were intended to be used full duplex, non repeated, so that doctors and medics could have telephone like communications from the scene and in the ambulance. Part of that plan included being able to send EKGs to the hospital and allow the doctor to interrupt that transmission to give orders. Other than the calling channel, none of them were intended to be repeated channels. Technology and advances in EMS have made most of that obsolete, but I don't know if the FCC has caught up with that yet. Under the original plan Med 9 & 10 were to be for calling or dispatch only. Many systems ended up using them for dispatch and thus required the use of another channel for calling, but some don't. In MA, Med 4 is the statewide calling channel, but in other states it's used for patches.

 

[izzyj4]

So everyone here doesn't get the wrong idea here, since I worked C-MED New Haven for many years I would like to let you know how the center operates.

The South Central Regional Emergency Communications System (aka C-MED New Haven) operates all of its MED channels with the repeaters on (MEDs 1-8 and MED 10. MED 9 is not currently in use by the center but is available on a simplex tactical basis if need be. The reason for this is because the region is by far the most active and involved C-MED center in CT, from start to finish we handle all of the call. We also operate with the repeaters on all the time so that when a unit is patching other units can hear the patch as well so they don't come up on a "dead" channel and start talking all over the patch, which still happens more often than not.

In the old days and technically still on the books, when a unit arrives on scene they are assigned to a MED Channel that is located on the closest tower off of MED 10 (dispatch).

First off, all the radios are set up "semi-duplex". In other words, if you have listened to FDNY on any of their dispatch channels, we can still hear the field units while we are transmitting. Same concept, different terminology.

We have four towers with "dispatch" MED 10 on them, only the tower at the West Rock / New Haven site has the repeater on it. The other three towers are located in Seymour ("Valley"), Guilford ("Shoreline") and Meriden ("Meriden/Wallingford"). For the most part, the repeater for MED 10 can be heard in 85 to 90% of the coverage area (rough estimate). Now most of the towers have two MED "patch" channels on them. The Valley tower has MED 1 (R) and MED 6, West Rock has MED 4 (R) and MED (7), the Shoreline tower has MED 2 (R) and MED 5 (no rep.) and Meriden has MED 3 (R). We also have towers with single frequencies: East Rock in New Haven has MED 6 (R), West Haven is MED 8 (R), Milford is MED 8 (no rep.) and Cook Hill in Wallingford is MED 5 (R).

To talk to a hospital, we have a "matrix" computer, basically a controler that hooks a hospital line to a MED tower (set up for MEDs 1-8 only). With the "Matrix" it is possible for an ambulance in Guilford (eastern part of the county) to talk to Griffin Hospital located in Derby (the extreme west of the county) over the radio. Our two trauma facilities are in New Haven (Yale and St. Ray's) so we can have a unit in the eastern most part of the region on MED 2, hook up Yale to that tower and have them talk to each other for directions. When the unit gets closer to coming into the city we can put them over on MED 6 (East Rock) or MED 7 (West Rock) depending on their location and hook up Yale's radio to that tower. Not a hard concept. This way if a medic / EMT cannot call via a phone, they have full radio contact with the hospital and also with C-MED.

We do occasionally take down the repeaters on all the channels for various reasons: Sensitive info, horse play, those occasional phone company test tones that drive everyone nuts, ect. To really understand how we operate in "Region 2" you need to listen to MED 10 to understand if your not from the area to gain a better understanding. Our center is laid back but when it comes being serious, there is no bull how we operate.

If anyone has any questions please feel free to ask and I'll answer it the best I can.

 

[izzyj4]

If your notification is more than 30 seconds long, you're talking too much. All the hospital wants to know is how sick the patient is so that they can mobilize necessary resources. Everything else can be given at triage or in the trauma room.

Not in our region. Though this is changing, our hospitals want to know everything what is going on even if it is considered a "Samsonite" call. This is also untrue if this is any sort of trauma, cardiac, stroke issue or sever medical issue. CT is very strict with patching on what we call "Priority 1" emergency medical care information. Its better for the doctor and the staff to have all of the information and set up for what is coming from the scene than it is to just show up at the door and say "HEY WERE HERE!!" kinda thing. The ER / Trauma center knows what they are expecting in detail and can have the appropriate care ready for the patient and the doctor only needs the "enroute" update in the ER. Trust me when I say this, not only did I work this area for many years, but last month I was a modified trauma patient and came to appreciate the way we operate more.

Also, I'm not knocking any other region's way they operate, I'm just going by CT's regions where I work.

 

[garys]

Not in our region. Though this is changing, our hospitals want to know everything what is going on even if it is considered a "Samsonite" call. This is also untrue if this is any sort of trauma, cardiac, stroke issue or sever medical issue. CT is very strict with patching on what we call "Priority 1" emergency medical care information. Its better for the doctor and the staff to have all of the information and set up for what is coming from the scene than it is to just show up at the door and say "HEY WERE HERE!!" kinda thing. The ER / Trauma center knows what they are expecting in detail and can have the appropriate care ready for the patient and the doctor only needs the "enroute" update in the ER. Trust me when I say this, not only did I work this area for many years, but last month I was a modified trauma patient and came to appreciate the way we operate more.

Also, I'm not knocking any other region's way they operate, I'm just going by CT's regions where I work.

Despite what the regulators and administrators think, the doctors and nurses stop listening after 30 seconds, at least around here. And it's the same in other parts of the country from what long time medics I know tell me. Most ED staff are way too busy to spend more time on the radio. I've given a lot of radio reports over the past 30 years and without fail, I end up giving the report again in person when I get the patient to the hospital. I've also been in EDs and seen what happens on that end of the radio when a report is given. What they need to know is what happened to the patient, if they are critical or not, and if they need to be ready to intubate or not. On of my radio reports consisted of "55 year old male, cardiac arrest, asystole, intubated, IV, lot's of medications, still in cardiac arrest." They had everyone they needed ready when we got in.

The only exception is in the very rare cases where we need medical control. Then we need to give a lot more in the way of information.

 

[N1SQB]

As an EMT, I tend to like simplex ALS/HERN frequencies because your transmissions are generally long and involve a lot of patient information. Furthermore, by the time you're ready to give your report, you're usually within simplex range of the hospital anyway. I HATE using a MEDCOM or phone patches to talk to an ER especially if I need my hands free or don't have much time to talk on the radio.

Also folks, I hate to be that guy but there's some discussion about the legality of listening to ALS/HERN channels because they are used only for the communication of privlidged patient information. The legal issues don't come from the FCC but questions that arise from the Health Insurance Providers' Protection Act (HIPPA, that thing you read or signed at your doctor's office or the hospital and is a major pain in the ass). If you choose to listen and live in an area where names are given with dispatches, PLEASE don't repeat anything you hear on these frequencies...

I dont know what other parts of the country do, but in our region, we do not give out patient names or addresses ect.. as that is not something ER doctors,nurses need to know. So, having said that, if a medic is coming in with a person who fell at home, hit her head and has lost consciousness ect.. how has that violated the patient's rights? It hasn't! With the exception of large scale events that make the media, you have no clue who the people are being transported. So by just listening to SOMEONE getting transported to a hospital for whatever reason, you do NOT violate the patient's rights. There are no specifics given that identify the person or people being transported. I love our system here in region 2.

Manny

 

[izzyj4]

I dont know what other parts of the country do, but in our region, we do not give out patient names or addresses ect.. as that is not something ER doctors,nurses need to know. So, having said that, if a medic is coming in with a person who fell at home, hit her head and has lost consciousness ect.. how has that violated the patient's rights? It hasn't! With the exception of large scale events that make the media, you have no clue who the people are being transported. So by just listening to SOMEONE getting transported to a hospital for whatever reason, you do NOT violate the patient's rights. There are no specifics given that identify the person or people being transported. I love our system here in region 2.

Manny

The only exception is the VA hospital where they require the last name and the last four of the patient's SS number. This is not a HIPPA violation and EMT's / Medics in the area have gotten chewed out for it by the VA er staff. Since they are federal, ect. ect. ect. (without getting into the politics of it) they are grandfathered because of their requirements.

 

[millrad]

Generally you can hear both sides of hospital patches because the ambulance side of the conversation is "repeated" on the hospital side (base) Med Channel. On the call you mentioned, the repeater must have been off. Maybe the new trend is to leave the repeater off on the "base' side to better protect privacy. Many C-Meds have never enabled a repeater on patches, so all you hear is the hospital saying "see you in three minutes."
W1AMJ
Prospect, CT
Northwest Public Safety Dispatcher

 

[izzyj4]

I covered that up on post #4.

New Haven usually keeps the repeaters on but MED 1 can easily be turned off w/o knowing it. I used to work there.

 

[N1SQB]

Generally you can hear both sides of hospital patches because the ambulance side of the conversation is "repeated" on the hospital side (base) Med Channel. On the call you mentioned, the repeater must have been off. Maybe the new trend is to leave the repeater off on the "base' side to better protect privacy. Many C-Meds have never enabled a repeater on patches, so all you hear is the hospital saying "see you in three minutes."
W1AMJ
Prospect, CT
Northwest Public Safety Dispatcher

Thanks for your input. If you look at post #5, I wrote that things are back to normal. Must have been an accidental hitting of the on/off button like IZZY suggested.

Thanks!

Manny