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Database Discussion Forum - This forum is for questions about the database such as how to use it, layout or usability issues or suggestions for improvement. It is not for pointing out wrong information or getting help with programming.

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Old 03-21-2017, 5:42 PM
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Default new input column for the database

Has anyone ever thought about adding another column in the database for transmit ( input tone-pl/or dpl tones) frequencies. I know there is a column for the receive frequency input but not transmit tone. We have a lot of frequencies in my county that use 2 different input tones for each RX/TX frequencies. I know you just need the receive input for scanner listening but alot of radio programmers use the database as a resource and it would be nice to see both of them in the RR database.

example
RX Freq. 153.86000 156.7 PL
TX Freq. 155.87250 74.4 PL
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Old 03-21-2017, 6:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick223 View Post
but alot of radio programmers use the database as a resource
That's a frightening thought, that someone programming radios for use by public safety is using a hobbyist database that is populated by contributions (not always accurate) from Joe Scannerhead. Yes, it happens, but it certainly shouldn't be condoned or encouraged.

The only input tones we catalog are for amateur radio, and that is not likely to ever change, sorry.
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Old 03-21-2017, 6:36 PM
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Official policy to not display those except for ham radio

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Old 03-22-2017, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by milf View Post
Official policy to not display those except for ham radio

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And those of us who operate systems are thankful for that.

I've had a few hobbyists want info on my systems so they can program them into their radios for "emergencies". No. Just no.
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Old 03-24-2017, 3:19 PM
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As someone else who does that programming, thank you for not publishing said information.

I HAVE used RR on many occasions to confirm frequencies/PLs on the receive side, though. So it's not implausible that someone in an official capacity might be using the info that's collectively supplied to program public safety radios.
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Old 03-24-2017, 3:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sconnick View Post
As someone else who does that programming, thank you for not publishing said information.

I HAVE used RR on many occasions to confirm frequencies/PLs on the receive side, though. So it's not implausible that someone in an official capacity might be using the info that's collectively supplied to program public safety radios.
It likely happens all the time, but RadioReference does not recommend, endorse or approve of this activity; all information for programming radios to be used in an official capacity must come from official sources, not RR.
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Old 03-24-2017, 3:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sconnick View Post
As someone else who does that programming, thank you for not publishing said information.

I HAVE used RR on many occasions to confirm frequencies/PLs on the receive side, though. So it's not implausible that someone in an official capacity might be using the info that's collectively supplied to program public safety radios.
Profoundly irresponsible if they are doing so (programming PS radios). As a first responder, and as a public safety communicator (I wear both hats), I want the comms I am using to be confirmed good - not "maybe" the right frequency submitted by an unknown party who may or may not have a clue what they're talking about (see such memorable hits as "what is this buzzing sound", "what are the codes for my city's polices - someone gave me 14080 but that come up as 'invalid frequency'", and "is Hooterville on a encription?").

Full disclosure - I have indeed programmed in a receive-only frequency using RR data, but it's RR data that I know for sure is 100% good. I would not in a million years, though, get deployed to another city/state on an emergency, and open up the RRDB as a programming tool to get my radios hooked up on their system (neverminding the fact that I'd need that city's permission first, which means I'd have to talk to them anyway, and could just get the correct data from them then).
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Old 03-24-2017, 9:16 PM
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Of course, you could figure out input tones yourself by (for example) parking your car on a hill a few miles away from known areas where agency vehicles with mobile radios commonly travel - just figure out the Repeater Input Freq and monitor that freq. in tone search mode.
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Old 03-24-2017, 9:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natedawg1604 View Post
just figure out the Repeater Input Freq and monitor that freq. in tone search mode.
It's even easier than that. The FCC licenses will show the repeater input frequencies if you know what you are looking at. Finding the PL/DPL is the only step, and most scanners/amateur radios will do that.
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Old 03-24-2017, 9:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmckenna View Post
It's even easier than that. The FCC licenses will show the repeater input frequencies if you know what you are looking at. Finding the PL/DPL is the only step, and most scanners/amateur radios will do that.
Most commonly, FX1, etc...
For systems without an input control station, and no FBs other than the FB2/6/8 etc... Look at the MO (mobiles.. and MO3 for vehicular repeaters)
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Old 03-25-2017, 8:27 AM
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I like having the information so I can distinguish between new discoveries and frequencies that have been in use already. Not many people use Search any more, but I do. Not to mention looking for new signals with SDRs.
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Old 03-25-2017, 8:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmckenna View Post
It's even easier than that. The FCC licenses will show the repeater input frequencies if you know what you are looking at.
The only problem is the bands that don't have standardized offsets or frequency pairs.
Many times if the license has more than one repeater you can't tell by the FCC database which inputs are paired with which outputs.

Most VHF high band licenses with repeaters are like this one.
ULS License - Industrial/Business Pool, Conventional License - KKA445 - WISE ELECTRIC CO OPERATIVE INC
The mobile area of operation is a point radius around each repeater location.
It is easy to figure out the pairs if there is only one repeater at each location but not in this case.

Some VHF high band licenses with repeaters are like this one where the mobile area of operation is the county, state or other geographic area.
ULS License - Public Safety Pool, Conventional License - WQRD999 - WISE, COUNTY OF
Even if this license only had one repeater at each location you would still not be able to figure out which input went with which repeater.
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Old 03-25-2017, 9:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd5y View Post
The only problem is the bands that don't have standardized offsets or frequency pairs.
Many times if the license has more than one repeater you can't tell by the FCC database which inputs are paired with which outputs.

Most VHF high band licenses with repeaters are like this one.
ULS License - Industrial/Business Pool, Conventional License - KKA445 - WISE ELECTRIC CO OPERATIVE INC
The mobile area of operation is a point radius around each repeater location.
It is easy to figure out the pairs if there is only one repeater at each location but not in this case.

Some VHF high band licenses with repeaters are like this one where the mobile area of operation is the county, state or other geographic area.
ULS License - Public Safety Pool, Conventional License - WQRD999 - WISE, COUNTY OF
Even if this license only had one repeater at each location you would still not be able to figure out which input went with which repeater.
Its called listening. You listen to the input. Match it to what your hearing on the repeater output. Come on into what real scanning is all about. Not to mention newer scanners have tools that help with this.

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Old 03-25-2017, 9:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milf View Post
Its called listening. You listen to the input. Match it to what your hearing on the repeater output. Come on into what real scanning is all about. Not to mention newer scanners have tools that help with this.
I know that, but if you are too far away to hear the mobiles or even the repeaters then you can't verify anything.
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Old 03-25-2017, 9:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd5y View Post
I know that, but if you are too far away to hear the mobiles or even the repeaters then you can't verify anything.
If you can't even hear the repeater then this all moot anyway. Time to report this thread and lock the door.

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Old 03-25-2017, 9:32 AM
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Report it for what people having a conversation? Every one gets up and arms on these threads because everything has to be a secret or we get keyboard tough guys that know everything and think they are super.

I do radio programming for 10 departments in my county and i know the information but it be nice to have the information in all in one spot then having to dig around and open multiple radios and if you call the dept then they dont even know how their radios were once programmed. It was only a question that is all it people want the information they can get it t's not G1 top secret classified . It wasn't a question asking for ENC codes.
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Old 03-25-2017, 9:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wa8pyr View Post
It likely happens all the time, but RadioReference does not recommend, endorse or approve of this activity; all information for programming radios to be used in an official capacity must come from official sources, not RR.
That and what I stated is enough reasoning. The rest is just anecdotal as its not changing

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Old 03-25-2017, 9:44 AM
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Also as the Administrator of a Public Safety Radio System I do not want unauthorized radios on our repeaters. I have lived with unauthorized self programmed radios on our system. Key ups at 2AM Local Rescue Squad asking for Police to check on a man in a school at 5:30AM (Maintenance Man getting the school ready to open) to call police for a stranded motorist out of the lane of traffic. The reason we went to a TRS and I changed inputs and tones on our Backup VHF system.
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Old 03-25-2017, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTR8000 View Post
That's a frightening thought, that someone programming radios for use by public safety is using a hobbyist database that is populated by contributions (not always accurate) from Joe Scannerhead. Yes, it happens...
Yes, it happens. Several years ago, I sat in a radio dealer's conference room for about two hours while one of their techs reprogrammed my county-issued radio. His reference material was print-outs from the RadioReference database for both conventional and trunked systems operating in my county. The tech's comment when I asked him about it was that the info on RadioReference was more accurate than what he could get from the various agencies. Since then, the county has hired their own techs to program our radios.
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Old 03-25-2017, 11:11 AM
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BTW, the OP asked a valid question and he's gotten some valid answers with supporting discussion. As long as we stay on topic, this moderator sees nothing wrong with this thread.
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