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Old 05-27-2017, 10:29 AM
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Default P25 TRS with same RFSS/Site No. but different SID

Can the database handle a P25 trunked system where all the sites are numbered RFSS 1 Site 1 but each site has a different system ID?
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Old 05-27-2017, 10:50 AM
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I don't think each site can have a different system ID. Would not make sense if part of same system.

536/436/ws1095/996p2/996xt/325p2/396xt/psr800/396t/HP-1/HP-2 & others
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Old 05-27-2017, 10:58 AM
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I believe RRDB can handle it but the DB Admins need to confirm.

Although the RFSS and site data is not all the same, here is an example:

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=4699
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Old 05-27-2017, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marksmith View Post
I don't think each site can have a different system ID. Would not make sense if part of same system.
There is a system in west Texas like that.
Each site shows WACN BEE00 RFSS 001 Site 001
The only thing that changes are the control channel frequencies and the system IDs.
I saw five sites this morning with SIDs 3E0, 3E1, 3E2, 3E3 and 3E4.
Most of the frequencies match up with this system https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=8350 which doesn't even have a WACN or SID listed.
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Old 05-27-2017, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nd5y View Post
There is a system in west Texas like that.
Each site shows WACN BEE00 RFSS 001 Site 001
The only thing that changes are the control channel frequencies and the system IDs.
I saw five sites this morning with SIDs 3E0, 3E1, 3E2, 3E3 and 3E4.
Most of the frequencies match up with this system https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=8350 which doesn't even have a WACN or SID listed.
OK - I'm drifting a bit from the original question but that system - It shows no WACN or SYSID info (as you've stated) and none of the site frequencies are marked as primary or alternate CCs (so obviously all need to be considered as CCs)?

Yes - this one is odd to say the least.
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Old 05-27-2017, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troymail View Post
none of the site frequencies are marked as primary or alternate CCs (so obviously all need to be considered as CCs)?
No. Each site I have seen only broadcasts one active primary CC and one alternate CC. It's not like a Harris system. The other strange thing is none of the sites broadcast a neighbor list.

That whole db entry has bad, missing or obsolete data. It's been that way from the beginning.
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Old 05-27-2017, 1:03 PM
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The answer is yes.

We can assign multiple SysID's and/or WACN's to a single trunked system, which are then assigned to each site.

Look at the JNCR example that Troy posted. You see a System ID List, with each of those ID's assigned to a site. There are numerous entries of RFSS 1, Site 1, however they have differing SysID's.
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Old 05-27-2017, 8:51 PM
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Default Oddball

This one is an oddball, even compared to Harris or Tait systems.

Can anyone confirm that the system is truly one single system, that it is networked, and that talkgroups can roam from one site to another?

Just shooting from the hip here, but do the participating local governments play nicely in the sandbox together when it comes to communications? It almost looks as though the system is actually comprised of a bunch of stand-alone systems which may be networked together; this would give each participating entity maximum control over their own destiny, and maximum control over what can roam to their site/system.

To the best of my knowledge, a master site can only host a single system ID. Normally, if you're creating a wide-area system like this, everybody shares the master site and limits access to their site/talkgroups/radio IDs by virtue of the security group settings in the master site. Costs less that way. However, this setup looks like everybody has their own master site which in effect means their own separate system.

If it's in fact a bunch of separate systems, we may have to list it as separate systems in the database, unless it can be confirmed that it's truly a single system.
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Old 05-27-2017, 9:21 PM
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All I know is what Unitrunker showed and there was no traffic at all when I was monitoring it.
Good luck on getting somebody in that area to confirm anything, otherwise the correct data would have been submitted already.
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Old 05-28-2017, 9:22 PM
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This system has not been networked due to lack of funding. So each site is operational in Site Trunking and each site has its own system ID. I don't know when/if it will ever be connected to a switch. Concho Valley COG is the system licensee and it was originally intended to be a regional system. The site info listed in the database is correct for frequencies
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Old 05-28-2017, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svfdchief View Post
This system has not been networked due to lack of funding. So each site is operational in Site Trunking and each site has its own system ID. I don't know when/if it will ever be connected to a switch. Concho Valley COG is the system licensee and it was originally intended to be a regional system. The site info listed in the database is correct for frequencies
Looks like everything current in the DB as of right now is directly off of an FCC license. Every frequency, even the FX1 frequencies (added as a site). No indication of a control channel. If it were in Site Trunking, there ought to be a control channel for each of those sites.

1-010 / 1-017 duplicated
1-008 / 1-016 duplicated
1-007 / 1-015 duplicated
1-002 / 1-014 duplicated
1-004 / 1-013 duplicated
1-003 / 1-012 duplicated
1-005 / 1-011 duplicated
1-001 listing FX1 frequencies

Again, it looks like somebody looked at two licenses, and then made up everything on the fly based upon the licenses. As i recall, only _confirmed_active_ sites are supposed to be listed in the DB and sites_with_no_location are not supposed to be in the DB.

Either that whole thing is cobbled together in the worst fashion, or that database entry doesn't even deserve to be seen by the public due to errors and omissions. Yowsa.

Mike

PS: Yep, I'm far far away from Texas, but this mess caught my attention so I'm chiming in.
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Old 05-30-2017, 1:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svfdchief View Post
This system has not been networked due to lack of funding. So each site is operational in Site Trunking and each site has its own system ID. I don't know when/if it will ever be connected to a switch. Concho Valley COG is the system licensee and it was originally intended to be a regional system. The site info listed in the database is correct for frequencies
OK, I'll have to give this some thought. . . .
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Old 05-30-2017, 1:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtindor View Post
Looks like everything current in the DB as of right now is directly off of an FCC license. Every frequency, even the FX1 frequencies (added as a site). No indication of a control channel. If it were in Site Trunking, there ought to be a control channel for each of those sites.

1-010 / 1-017 duplicated
1-008 / 1-016 duplicated
1-007 / 1-015 duplicated
1-002 / 1-014 duplicated
1-004 / 1-013 duplicated
1-003 / 1-012 duplicated
1-005 / 1-011 duplicated
1-001 listing FX1 frequencies

Again, it looks like somebody looked at two licenses, and then made up everything on the fly based upon the licenses. As i recall, only _confirmed_active_ sites are supposed to be listed in the DB and sites_with_no_location are not supposed to be in the DB.

Either that whole thing is cobbled together in the worst fashion, or that database entry doesn't even deserve to be seen by the public due to errors and omissions. Yowsa.

Mike

PS: Yep, I'm far far away from Texas, but this mess caught my attention so I'm chiming in.
I and another person in the DFW area are trying to get a bogus DMR system out of the DB but not having much luck.
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Old 05-30-2017, 2:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtindor View Post
only _confirmed_active_ sites are supposed to be listed in the DB and sites_with_no_location are not supposed to be in the DB.
What about confirmed sites with an active control channel but no exact known location?
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Old 05-30-2017, 2:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmSixNine View Post
I and another person in the DFW area are trying to get a bogus DMR system out of the DB but not having much luck.
What system would that be?
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Old 05-30-2017, 2:40 PM
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It was called Airtime communications.
Heres a link to us discussing it.
https://forums.radioreference.com/te...ml#post2659151
Link to system
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=9000
But it looks like its been removed from the Dallas county page.
I dont want to hijack this thread.
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Old 05-30-2017, 2:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svfdchief View Post
The site info listed in the database is correct for frequencies
I missed this part the other day...

This statement is wrong. The database is doesn't have all the frequencies. CVCOG has several 152 MHz paging licenses. Last week there were two active control channels on 152 MHz that are not in the database.
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Old 05-30-2017, 3:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmSixNine View Post
It was called Airtime communications.
Heres a link to us discussing it.
https://forums.radioreference.com/te...ml#post2659151
Link to system
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=9000
But it looks like its been removed from the Dallas county page.
I dont want to hijack this thread.
That system was flagged as "Deleted", so no links to it will appear anywhere nor will software download it. It is still directly accessible if someone saved the URL, but for all intents and purposes, it's gone.
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Old 05-30-2017, 5:33 PM
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Default P25 TRS with same RFSS/Site No. but different SID

Quote:
Originally Posted by wa8pyr View Post
OK, I'll have to give this some thought. . . .

If you check the submissions, you'll notice that the submitter confirmed the system wasn't on the air yet. Seems more like a candidate for the Wiki until a local can confirm it's on the air.
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Old 05-30-2017, 5:54 PM
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If you mean the submission I made for the CVCOG system the other day, how the hell was I receiving it on a scanner and getting info from Unitrunker if it's not on the air?
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