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Database Discussion Forum - This forum is for questions about the database such as how to use it, layout or usability issues or suggestions for improvement. It is not for pointing out wrong information or getting help with programming.

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-25-2017, 2:58 PM
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Default RAS On DMR Submissions

If you submit DMR stuff to the database, is there a way the use of Restricted Access To System (RAS) can be included? It would be nice if there was a Yes/No Y/N type field that could tell whether or not RAS is in use.
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Old 12-25-2017, 3:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeboys-Scanna View Post
If you submit DMR stuff to the database, is there a way the use of Restricted Access To System (RAS) can be included? It would be nice if there was a Yes/No Y/N type field that could tell whether or not RAS is in use.
I don't think there is. But it doesn't make a difference because any receive-only scenario doesn't care about RAS. That's only important if you are a radio wanting to subscribe.

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Old 12-25-2017, 5:15 PM
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I actually think it would be helpful, cos if you're programming an XPR for monitoring, then knowing if a system is RAS would make all the difference. Especially if you're out of town and planning a visit somewhere.
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Old 12-27-2017, 9:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Homeboys-Scanna View Post
I actually think it would be helpful, cos if you're programming an XPR for monitoring, then knowing if a system is RAS would make all the difference. Especially if you're out of town and planning a visit somewhere.
We're not going to list information of this type on RadioReference. As it's sole purpose is to restrict access, it could be (very) loosely considered in the same category as encryption.
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Old 12-27-2017, 9:48 PM
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Seriously?

It's less "harmful" than listing TX/RX frequencies or PL / DPL / connect tones...
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Old 12-28-2017, 7:50 AM
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I've seen systems marked "RAS" in the notes in the past -- has that now been removed?
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Old 12-28-2017, 9:25 AM
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Listing a system as using RAS causes zero harm. It would be different if the RAS key was also listed.


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Old 12-28-2017, 9:50 AM
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RR management needs to review and revise its policies with respect to information that is only of use for transmitting and come up with a comprehensive and consistent response to queries like this.
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Old 12-28-2017, 9:52 AM
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Probably should look at inconsistent application of information by the various admins as well (including the changing what users submit as being "observed").
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Old 12-28-2017, 4:29 PM
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The odds of a rogue person figuring out an RAS key are slim to none. So if the database would simply show either Yes/No if a system uses RAS, then someone programming a commercial radio could at least know whether or not to even bother. There seems to be an overall reluctance on RadioReference to allow us to post about certain things. Like, anytime I've tried to ask about system keys, non-affiliation, software, etc., everyone suddenly gets real mean and the thread is shut down.

Was there a memo amongst all the mods about this? Maybe RadioReference is only meaning to be extra cautious about the risk of being sued for something? But then again, we have System IDs and connect tones that are listed in the database.
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Old 12-28-2017, 4:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeboys-Scanna View Post

Was there a memo amongst all the mods about this? Maybe RadioReference is only meaning to be extra cautious about the risk of being sued for something? But then again, we have System IDs and connect tones that are listed in the database.
Keep in mind that "mods" (Moderators) and database admins are not the same thing. While someone can hold both positions, they have completely different responsibilities.

Now back to the complaining.
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Old 12-28-2017, 7:00 PM
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Officially from the top many times... This is an scanner and scanning based website, not an source for radio systems administrators etc,... We are not supposed to provide information which would allow unauthorized access to radio systems etc... Such as INPUT tones with the exception of amateur radio systems,, TRS system keys, ANY form of access to ENCRYPTION DATA other than the fact it is encryption, information about NON Affiliation and other NON AUTHORIZED forms of access to TRS etc... Yes there was some data put out BEFORE the final word came down that we are NOT to list it. If you want a radio programmed for a specific system, contact that system administration, and its radio shop and do it LEGALLY. If your AUTHORIZED to use said systems that should be no problem right? If you want to get into SERIOUS system discussion there ARE forms here for it, and for programming data sites like BATLABS etc..
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Old 12-28-2017, 7:18 PM
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So whats the difference in listing PL codes on an analog system then?
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Old 12-28-2017, 7:25 PM
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OUTPUT tones are one thing... INPUT is ANOTHER.
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Old 12-28-2017, 7:31 PM
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But the inputs and outputs are almost always the same. The tones are nice to know so you can program them in a scanner to avoid the scanner stopping on obnoxious DMR noise on the same frequency. Same thing if you're programming a commercial radio.
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Old 12-28-2017, 7:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milf View Post
... We are not supposed to provide information which would allow unauthorized access to radio systems etc... Such as INPUT tones...

Yet many many Motorola type 2 systems have the connect tone listed...



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Old 12-28-2017, 7:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayn1n32008 View Post
Yet many many Motorola type 2 systems have the connect tone listed...



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BUT NOT the KEY.... SO you can still be bricked or locked out by system admin. For in depth facts, go to the system forums, lots of technical info on how it works in depth there.
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Old 12-28-2017, 7:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milf View Post
BUT NOT the KEY.... SO you can still be bricked or locked out by system admin. For in depth facts, go to the system forums, lots of technical info on how it works in depth there.

But it is one piece less information they need...


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Old 12-28-2017, 7:46 PM
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Without EVERY thing you do not get the whole pie.... And as Forrest Gump would say... That is all I have to say about that. If you guys want to get nit picky, PM Tom or Lindsay and they will pretty much say exactly what I told you.
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Old 12-28-2017, 7:48 PM
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Key? As in the system key file that you need for the software to let you program a trunking system into a commercial radio? No, this is about the database. The database is just information, fields of data, not actual computer files for download. Having the system key file or not is unrelated to whether a system admin can stun your commercial radio over the air. And unrelated to simply knowing if RAS is in use, Yes or No.
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