RadioReference on Facebook   RadioReference on Twitter   RadioReference Blog
 

Go Back   The RadioReference.com Forums > Amateur Radio > Digital Voice for Amateur Use

Digital Voice for Amateur Use - Discuss use of digital voice technologies on the amateur radio bands. This is to include technologies such as VoIP, P25, DMR/TRBO, NXDN, D-STAR, etc.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-05-2009, 11:30 PM
trace1's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: EM73co
Posts: 850
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KB9LIQ View Post
I don't think d star is going anywhere fast until more support from other then ICOM.
There is already more than just ICOM that supports D-STAR...

DV-Dongle

D-STAR Hot Spot

Kenwood TMW-706 * But of course this one looks just like the ICOM ID-800 and hasn't been released in the US.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2009, 9:40 AM
SOFA_KING's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: SE Florida
Posts: 1,481
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by trace1 View Post
There is already more than just ICOM that supports D-STAR...

DV-Dongle

D-STAR Hot Spot

Kenwood TMW-706 * But of course this one looks just like the ICOM ID-800 and hasn't been released in the US.
Do you use one of those DV Dongle thingys? If so, what is the computer software like? I presume the IP audio is just the same as the actual local radio audio because the "data" is the same either way (local or through IP). Is that the case?

If so, THAT is a real plus!

I have some ideas of what I would like to see on that. I would like it to be a Centracom console like interface!

It would be cool to be able to listen to several nodes (repeaters) at one time. Maybe with different levels of priority and volume on each with maybe a quick "focus" button to boost the level on something of high interest. FIFO scan with priority levels would be cool (You can't listen to too many stations at one time after all.). I would think it would be very possible. In that area you should be able to do nearly anything when it comes to software control. Emergency alerting and everything. The sky is the limit!

Like I said before, I love and prefer the big /\/\ gear, and I'm not crazy about ham toys that are hard to use and have bad audio and scan features, but the protocol and IP routing features make this a very versitile system with real "wide area" potential. I was never into the whole EchoLink/IRLP system because it is very intrusive, hard to manage, and a little like shooting in the dark if you are trying to reach someone in a different area...plus all of the listeners on both ends have to hear all of the controler noise. I can't stand that! And I was never a fan of using computers as a radio...like the internet was a DX tool , but I feel D-STAR changes all of that. It has real commercial grade feature potential. It is more like a commercial radio wide area system. I have yet to try some of this, but I hope it is not full of noise, automatic annoucements, and other controler generated garbage like many analog repeaters have. I would hope that all that extra "noise" is gone now that the routing is automatic and the call signs are all VISIBLE. No need for end-of-transmission "sounds" (simple built-in beep works), and no need to announce anything! I can't listen to repeaters that spit out useless noise and "sounds" for very long without locking them out. The ability to close your monitor and listen for someone calling YOU is a real plus too. There are times you want to listen to a group or two, times you want to talk to a group or two, and times you want a silant standby.

Regarding the IC-91AD and it's scan and search features in D-STAR mode, it does well to pick up weak signals on scan/search. It does very well. I had allot of QSO action to test this today. The true dual band (dual watch) feature is VERY good, although digital is only available on band B. Two things bug me. 1) When I transmit, BOTH bands stop scanning and you have to restart them (one at a time) after every transmission. What a pain in the butt! 2) And there is no quick priority while scanning like big /\/\ radios, although there is the dual watch which almost serves this function...without digital. The sound quality is good, but the audio is WEAK.

Phil
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 08-06-2009, 10:08 AM
trace1's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: EM73co
Posts: 850
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOFA_KING View Post
Do you use one of those DV Dongle thingys? If so, what is the computer software like? I presume the IP audio is just the same as the actual local radio audio because the "data" is the same either way (local or through IP). Is that the case?
No I don't have a DV Dongle yet, I've already got 4 D-STAR radios so I'm not so sure I can get my wife to think that I really NEED another "toy".

I've talked with and have heard several stations using the Dongle and most of the time I'd never know it unless they said something about using one. There have been a few issues with them but it sounds as if those are being worked on. Here is a good web-site that has more information about the Dongle and you can ask users about how they work and such, DVDongle Group.
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2009, 10:02 AM
trace1's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: EM73co
Posts: 850
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by newsphotog View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by trace1 View Post
I was actually able to hit the Tuscaloosa Tall Tower D-STAR repeater from about 100 miles away using only a 7 watt handheld with a 5/8 wave mag-mount antenna before I got a base/mobile station!
That's some impressive range.
Yep, and that was a cheap MFJ antenna at that!
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2009, 7:52 PM
Caesar's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Cayce, SC
Posts: 1,735
Default

South Carolina D-Star SCDSTAR.com

South Carolina D-Star page, D-Star is growing quickly in SC. We are enjoying it greatly. It offers many advantages over P25 for hams such as the dvdongle and gateways....
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2009, 8:36 PM
newsphotog's Avatar
Member
  Shack Photos
Shack photos
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 984
Default

The states down in the southeastern US definitely have some impressive D-STAR repeater networks, that's for sure.
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 08-07-2009, 11:24 PM
trace1's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: EM73co
Posts: 850
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by newsphotog View Post
The states down in the southeastern US definitely have some impressive D-STAR repeater networks, that's for sure.
Here is just some of the D-STAR activity here in Alabama. ARRL Alabama Linked Repeater System and Alabama D-STAR Users Yahoo Group.

Here is some other D-STAR activity here in the Southeast. Southeastern D-STAR Weather Net and Southeastern D-STAR Weather Net Yahoo Group.
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 08-08-2009, 10:25 AM
mikepdx's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Corbett, OR USA
Posts: 814
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by n5usr View Post
...I just can't make myself like the audio quality in general. Even going simplex, with solid strong signals, the audio sounds so pinched and anemic - very artificial.
AMEN!

Reminds me back when I (we) were forced to dump our old analog cell phones for the
"new and improved" digital ones. I'll take the sweet, mellow audio of analog FM any day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trace1 View Post
There is already more than just ICOM that supports D-STAR...
...
Kenwood TMW-706 * But of course this one looks just like the ICOM ID-800 and hasn't been released in the US.
It's a Kenwood in name only.
Manufactured by Icom for Kenwood and only sold in Japan.
__________________
http://www.spellzone.com/
Online English spelling course.
Inquire about group rates for RR Forum members.

Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 08-09-2009, 6:41 PM
trace1's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: EM73co
Posts: 850
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikepdx View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by trace1 View Post
There is already more than just ICOM that supports D-STAR...

Kenwood TMW-706 * But of course this one looks just like the ICOM ID-800 and hasn't been released in the US.
It's a Kenwood in name only.
Manufactured by Icom for Kenwood and only sold in Japan.
Uh yeah, I know that. Hence the little "* But of course this one looks just like the ICOM ID-800 and hasn't been released in the US." comment.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 08-10-2009, 1:32 AM
kb9hgi's Avatar
Member
  Audio Feed Provider
Audio Feed Provider
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: IL
Posts: 463
Default

We have 8 repeaters in our area with no D star or P25 and 4 of those repeaters belong to the local club and I can turn on one of those repeaters day or night and never hear a sole. They have 200 members in the club but never hear anyone. However there is one repeater that belongs to a local ham and he has echolink on it. This repeater has the most activity because it has echolink. So I don't think we will be getting D star anytime soon. Plus I would not want to buy a over priced Icom. Yaesu for me!!!!!!!!!
__________________
Steve KB9HGI
WCIL Scanner Radio
http://www.qsl.net/kb9hgi/wcillive.htm/
Scanning da bands in West Central Illinois
Reply With Quote
  #31 (permalink)  
Old 08-11-2009, 8:52 AM
SOFA_KING's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: SE Florida
Posts: 1,481
Default

I like Yaesu stuff too, and I had bad Icom experience with two products I purchased in the past. The latest being FM operation on the IC-706 Mk IIG. How they can sell a radio with such a huge flaw in the FM squelch design is beyond me. I even got the service manual and spoke to Icom engineers about that bad design. No fix...AND THEY STILL SELL IT THAT WAY! It is a popular radio. I guess no one notices how bad the squelch pops on flutter and fading (FM only). I could not listen to FM on it. On SSB and AM it was good. Noise blanker was not so good though.

Getting back to D-STAR, my IC-91AD was really cheap and came with the much needed software and serial cable. I think they must be phasing out RS232 stuff for USB, but I have an old laptop that I use. Overall, it was not too expensive. Biggest problem is TXing for long transmissions as it gets HOT. All small HTs do. But it works! I made a cheap handsfree solution out of a Logitech stereo computer headset. Rewired the guts in the volume/mute in-line device to change the mute into a TX switch. Works great! Plenty loud too. I will be getting the HM75 mic and I will use an amplified speaker for mobile use. Looking for a good amp too. Overall it was not too expensive to get into this mode, but I really like it so far.

I think the ham population has declined, and that is the reason so many repeaters are dead today. Plus people have to work harder and have less time to talk on the radio. 10 years ago my manager encouraged me to put ham equipment in my company truck. A few years after that the company came down on me for having "un-authorized" equipment in the truck, so it came out. The shift we see in how corporations treat people and have no respect for amateur radio (even technical companies) is part to blame. What is the harm in talking a little radio while driving from job site to job site? The economy is having a major impact too. "Play money" is a thing of the past for many. Not good, not good at all. But if people like IRLP and Echolink, D-STAR should be a nice step up in that world...if you can afford the investment. My local club wants to get a D-STAR repeater. But even club membership has dropped due to the economy. Ham radio is not what it used to be because this country is not what it used to be. We have become the land of the working poor...that is if you are lucky enough to have a job at all!

Phil
Reply With Quote
  #32 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2009, 2:38 AM
newsphotog's Avatar
Member
  Shack Photos
Shack photos
Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 984
Default

I like Yaesu too, but I currently see D-STAR as I see Blu-Ray in its early days. The first manufacturer of Blu-Ray players was Sony, and only Sony. The only manufacturer of D-STAR radios is Icom. I can see more manufacturers picking up D-STAR as the project picks up speed. Contrary to some operators' beliefs, the hardware and coding is not proprietary to Icom. I hope Yaesu gives up on its WIRES protocol and dives into D-STAR but since Motorola has a vested interest in Vertex Standard, I don't know if that will happen very soon.
Reply With Quote
  #33 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2009, 8:45 AM
n5usr's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Bethany, OK
Posts: 593
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOFA_KING View Post
10 years ago my manager encouraged me to put ham equipment in my company truck. A few years after that the company came down on me for having "un-authorized" equipment in the truck, so it came out. The shift we see in how corporations treat people and have no respect for amateur radio (even technical companies) is part to blame. What is the harm in talking a little radio while driving from job site to job site?
I obviously can't say for your specific company, but for many it is the insurance companies that are driving this. They are so risk-adverse that they strongly push the client companies to eliminate *ANY* "risky" behavior. Add in the dumbing-down of the society that has happened generally, such that no one wants to have to expend any brain power to determine what "risky" is, and that gets further morphed into eliminating any "unnecessary" behavior. So if it isn't 100% job-required, then it's out.

Fortunately, I left a company that was heading down that road. The place I'm currently at has some silly rules thanks to the insurance companies, but it isn't too bad. And I do still have my ham gear with me in the company vehicle.

Trucking companies have another issue at hand: Some of them have been hit in the past because some employees had illegal "export radios" in their trucks. It's easier for them just to say "no personal gear" and only allow the company-issued CB than to make exceptions for those who have licenses to go along with their radio.
Reply With Quote
  #34 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2009, 11:39 AM
k7ve's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Edmonds, WA
Posts: 12
Default IMBE vs AMBE

Quote:
Originally Posted by KS4VT View Post
Yep I tried D* once, very complicated to program and I wasn't impressed with the audio. My ears like the IMBE vocoder better. I also like the ability to run mixed mode so analog only users aren't left out of the QSO.
You do realize that next generation P25 is going to AMBE?
Reply With Quote
  #35 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2009, 11:45 AM
k7ve's Avatar
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Edmonds, WA
Posts: 12
Default P25 / D-STAR Features

One issue that will probably raise its head at some point is:

D-STAR complies with rule 97.119b3 on every transmission. P25 digital does not.

Last edited by k7ve; 08-12-2009 at 11:51 AM..
Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
  #36 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2009, 11:58 AM
SOFA_KING's Avatar
Member
   
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: SE Florida
Posts: 1,481
Default

That is true. The "Top Down" know-it-alls (not) call it "Risk Mitigation".

D-STAR is not really a Blu-Ray. It is an open standard. Blu-Ray is not...Sony just wanted the fees, and now gets them. They marketed mass appeal and took advantage of the public's ignorance to the fact it was proprietary. People don't care about the old Beta vrs VHS debate anymore.

Yaesu would be stupid not to sell D-STAR. It is market share with no fees to pay...Unless they want to create a proprietary standard to compete with D-STAR and capitalize on it like Blu-Ray did, in which case I think it would flop big time. WIRES-II looks just like an IRLP to me. Not in the same class at all. D-STAR is here to stay and a fairly good open standard with very useful applications and seamless operation. If P25 had any routing capability like D-STAR does, it might have been the way to go, but there is no protocol design like that. It's just a "digital" version of analog voice and repeaters. Yeah, we all like the Motowiz gear, but big /\/\ doesn't care to sell to the amateur radio community. Past attempts did not make them any real money, and amateur /\/\ gear lacks the powerful features and design of the top end commercial gear, which is a big reason why people like them (fast scan with super quick priority scan, loud audio, easy to use interface, etc). I could see a day when P25 makes it's way into amateur gear, but then the people who like the exclusive community of commercial gear users will loose that status...and let's be honest...that might be the point of some of these P25 repeaters. And the amateur gear will never have the quality design of the top end commercial gear. They could do it, but they haven't up till now, so I don't see it coming. I'm still waiting for an "all band" (up to 440, including 220) radio. I would like to see an IC-7000 MkII with D-STAR and (why not) P25...throw in 220 while you're at it!

Phil
Reply With Quote
  #37 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2009, 1:20 PM
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,120
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by k7ve View Post
You do realize that next generation P25 is going to AMBE?
Yes in 2-slot TDMA. Wel will see what it sounds like once it is out in the market.
Reply With Quote
  #38 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2009, 1:21 PM
Member
  Amateur Radio Operator
Amateur Radio
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 2,120
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by k7ve View Post
One issue that will probably raise its head at some point is:

D-STAR complies with rule 97.119b3 on every transmission. P25 digital does not.
I guess you never heard of Soft ID.
Reply With Quote
  #39 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2009, 1:33 PM
N_Jay's Avatar
Not Posting
   
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Outside the big city in the Midwest
Posts: 10,285
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KS4VT View Post
Yes in 2-slot TDMA. Wel will see what it sounds like once it is out in the market.
And AMBE (as well as other audio enhancements) are being implemented in P25 Phase 1 equipment and systems.
Reply With Quote
  #40 (permalink)  
Old 08-12-2009, 2:15 PM
Member
   
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 398
Default

I guess I'm getting in this conversation a little late.

I like, no, I love the idea of what D-STAR is and can do for amateur radio, for me. It's great that Icom has taken the lead on this but this company is still a leader with no followers. How long have they been selling D-STAR now?

There isn't even a receiver/scanner out there that supports monitoring D-STAR traffic. The only equipment that is D-STAR compatible and available in most parts of the world (namely the USA) is Icom. WAIT! I can correct my self, for over $1000, you can get the Icom R2500 AND the $200 UT-118 (wow, that thing is used in quite a bit of Icom stuff) or if you can get your hands on the now defunct PCR2500 and a UT-118 and then you can at least receive D-STAR traffic if you have no D-STAR ham rigs.

I find it funny that even Icom's deus ex machina, the R9500, only has a module for APCO25 reception.

I don't want to say Icom does not care about D-STAR, that would be dumb, as they have invested a lot of time and money into this and it may also be helping them a little on their NXDN protocol (IDAS, similar to Kenwood's NEXEDGE) but I do feel they are doing less than they can.

To all you D-STAR pioneers out there, keep it up, and push things forward.
__________________
"Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn..."
~Gone With the Wind

Terrell

"Ham radio is one of the few slices of insanity that you actually have to test into..."
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
sticky

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 1:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
All information here is Copyright 2012 by RadioReference.com LLC and Lindsay C. Blanton III.Ad Management by RedTyger
Copyright 2015 by RadioReference.com LLC Privacy Policy  |  Terms and Conditions