TRBO Handheld Transceivers, Where to be found

[tilt404]

There have been more TRBO amateur radio repeaters showing up in my area, but I still don't understand why since I can't even find any transceivers on familiar radio websites here in Canada like Radioworld or Durham Radio. I don't want to go to some Motorola dealer and pay through the nose for a transceiver when there is such limited use to the radio here. Or be tied to them for programming.

I'm confused by how these new TRBO repeater systems seem to be spreading through the amateur radio field, when its so difficult to purchase the transceivers. Is everyone buying these things from China or is there something I'm missing? Every time I search for TRBO on any ham radio site, nothing comes up.

I'm sorry if this has been discussed before or if this isn't the place to ask. I'm just curious what other people are doing and where they are finding these transceivers to use. I'm looking more for a handheld since its how I use my radios.

 

[DisasterGuy]

First, like Astro25, MotoTRBO is just Motorola's branding of an open standard -in this case DMR. There are radios from MANY manufacturers that follow the DMR standard. You will not however find a familiar amateur transceiver for DMR since it is a commercial, not amateur standard. The same is true for P25.


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[N8OHU]

There have been more TRBO amateur radio repeaters showing up in my area, but I still don't understand why since I can't even find any transceivers on familiar radio websites here in Canada like Radioworld or Durham Radio. I don't want to go to some Motorola dealer and pay through the nose for a transceiver when there is such limited use to the radio here. Or be tied to them for programming.

I'm confused by how these new TRBO repeater systems seem to be spreading through the amateur radio field, when its so difficult to purchase the transceivers. Is everyone buying these things from China or is there something I'm missing? Every time I search for TRBO on any ham radio site, nothing comes up.

I'm sorry if this has been discussed before or if this isn't the place to ask. I'm just curious what other people are doing and where they are finding these transceivers to use. I'm looking more for a handheld since its how I use my radios.

You probably won't find the Motorola MotoTRBO radios anywhere but a Motorola dealer or eBay, but I know that Ham Radio Outlet sells Vertex DMR transceivers, which will work on MotoTRBO repeaters. The nice thing about buying the Vertex models instead of Motorola is that you don't have to pay extra for the programming software, which you will need since the commercial radios don't generally support any form of manual programming.

 

[tilt404]

I thought it was a open standard though. I still don't get why there are repeaters using DMR around here when its so hard to get a transceiver. At least if they were using D-Star I would know where to buy a transceiver and wouldn't have to go to some back alley. A local ham group here has been talking about importing some of these DMR handhelds, but still confusing to me.

DMR Series - Hytera Communications Corporation Limited

I'm sorry I made the subject here 'TRBO', should of said DMR. If its a commercial standard then I don't know why amateur radio repeaters keep using it. Its not doing us amateurs any favors if you ask me since the equipment isn't easy to buy or program. But I guess that's part of being a radio amateur. Its been the talk of our ham radio groups here lately, but like I keep saying, it makes me scratch my head.

Thanks for your replies though. I guess I'll keep waiting and see what happens to the technology. Especially if it becomes more accessible to radio amateurs like me.

 

[N8OHU]

I'm sorry I made the subject here 'TRBO', should of said DMR. If its a commercial standard then I don't know why amateur radio repeaters keep using it. Its not doing us amateurs any favors if you ask me since the equipment isn't easy to buy or program. But I guess that's part of being a radio amateur. Its been the talk of our ham radio groups here lately, but like I keep saying, it makes me scratch my head.

I think you hit the nail on the head here; I view it as a way of experimenting, rather than something for serious use, though those more involved with DMR than me would disagree.

 

[DisasterGuy]

The Hyteras are nice radios. I have worked on Harris Momentum (rebranded Hytera) repeaters and mobiles and they are very solid and easy to work on. There certainly are drawbacks to DMR and P25 in amateur but the technologies themselves are rock solid and so is the gear.


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[AK9R]

I thought it was a open standard though.

DMR is an open standard. It's used worldwide and over a dozen manufacturers are building DMR radios.

 

[tilt404]

Thank you once again for the replies. No rush for me so will keep using what I have and see what comes down the supply chain as time goes on.

 

[N4KVE]

You won't find DMR radios at ham radio stores. You can find them on E-bay, but like anything there, you take a chance. I found my Motorola XPR6550 on the Batlabs forum. I bought it from a reliable, & trusted seller, practically new, & less than a year old. Once you program the radio a few times, it becomes easy. Usually the seller will include a "disc" with the radio. Many of the radios in use here in S. Florida came from a ham who worked at a 2-way shop, & they were trade in's from a large company. Radio, battery, antenna, & charger package was $300. Trbo repeaters are sprouting up in Ontario like crazy, & on a recent visit to Montreal, I used 2 Trbo machines in the Montreal area. I'm sure Claude, VE2YI in Montreal can help you find a radio.

 

[mikewazowski]

I thought it was a open standard though.

It is an open standard.

I still don't get why there are repeaters using DMR around here when its so hard to get a transceiver.

It's not hard to get a radio. I've got 4 and lots of other people have had no problems.

At least if they were using D-Star I would know where to buy a transceiver and wouldn't have to go to some back alley.

None of mine were bought in a back alley. I bought a new one from eBay, 2 at the Dayton Hamvention and 1 used from a local dealer who took a bunch in as a trade in. I see ads for radios new and used all the time on the two DMR YahooGroups

If its a commercial standard then I don't know why amateur radio repeaters keep using it.

Because it's an easy way to network repeaters together, it provides two talk paths per repeater and you don't have to be locked into any particular vendor. X.25 packet was also a commercial standard that hams adapted to AX.25. There are lots of other commercial standards that hams make use of everyday.

Its not doing us amateurs any favors if you ask me since the equipment isn't easy to buy or program.

But it's not hard to find and it isn't that hard to program. I've looked at some of the D-Star programming threads and I don't believe it's any easier than DMR.

There's 11 DMR repeaters and close to 100 people with DMR ID's just in Ontario. I heard the Ontario Science Centre on the North American talkgroup demonstrating DMR to visitors yesterday.

Since you're in the Windsor area, why not ask one of the locals there that are on the local DMR repeater. They should be able to give you a demo and give you some advice on where to buy one.

You can also check out va3xpr.net and DMARC-DMR.net. va3xpr.net has a review of a nice Vertex unit on the front page.

 

[AK9R]

If its a commercial standard then I don't know why amateur radio repeaters keep using it.

Another thought crossed my mind.

If amateur radio operators 40-50 years ago had followed your philosophy, the explosion of amateur radio FM usage and amateur radio repeaters might not have happened. FM for 2-way communications was a commercial standard. Amateur radio operators started experimenting with FM and learned about its capabilities. Amateur radio operators started picking up surplus commercial gear on the used market. Amateur radio operators who worked in 2-way radio shops took what they learned on the job and built repeaters for their fellow hams to use. Eventually, the amateur radio equipment manufacturers caught on and started marketing FM radios geared towards amateur radio.

One of the hallmarks of amateur radio is experimentation with new bands and new modes. DMR is just another mode. I see nothing wrong with hams experimenting with this mode.

 

[mikewazowski]

Excellent point.

Back in the 70's when I got involved in amateur radio, the club repeater was a castoff Motorola and they would lend out old Motorola mobiles so beginners could tune into the weekly CW practice net. Using an amateur radio store bought radio was unheard of.

Perhaps somebody will add some amateur related feature to the DMR standard and we'll end up with aDMR?

 

[rapidcharger]

DMR has been developed for business and industrial markets and as w9BU and others have said, it's a lot like the early days and adapting commercial gear to the ham bands.

I thought it was a open standard though. I still don't get why there are repeaters using DMR around here when its so hard to get a transceiver.)))

It's not hard to get a DMR tranceiver. I bought a non display portable on Ebay for under $250. For a while I didn't have the programming cable or software and relied on others in the ham community who were eager to help me get started.

Now with the Vertex Standard "e-verge" portables, you can get one new with warranty for around that price that use really inexpensive programming cables and free software. There's also Motorola's value line the CP-200-d and associated mobiles. Someone else mentioned that you can call up Ham Radio Outlet and order a VXD-720. You can obtain that software legally from dealers for free. What more do you need... a limousine to come pick you up and take you to the store? :wink:


As for why it's taking off like wildfire.... it's because it's noise and static free, lid free, and it just plain works better. And because it's two slot TDMA, you can have two simultaneous talk paths for the price of one. If the repeaters are networked, you can talk to someone across the street or across the world and they are less complicated and more reliable than RF linked repeaters and some of the ROIP networks and they can run independent of any other network unlike IRLP and D-star.

(((At least if they were using D-Star I would know where to buy a transceiver and wouldn't have to go to some back alley. A local ham group here has been talking about importing some of these DMR handhelds, but still confusing to me. )))

As someone who had a D-star radio and has all the other digital modes, I can tell you that d-star is the most confusing and convoluted digital mode there is! DMR is not the easiest to program, particularly the motorola but it is far easier to learn and figure out than D-star in my opinion. If you want something even easier, there's NXDN, also an open standard that uses commercial gear. Or P25! Sounds great. Couldn't be simpler. Tons of used gear.

(((I don't know why amateur radio repeaters keep using it.)))

Because it's fricken better! So much better!

((( Its not doing us amateurs any favors if you ask me since the equipment isn't easy to buy or program.)))

It isn't doing us amateurs any favors that the ham toy manufacturers turn out total crap.

(((But I guess that's part of being a radio amateur. Its been the talk of our ham radio groups here lately, but like I keep saying, it makes me scratch my head. )))

Give it a try and within 1 day, you will no longer be scratching your head.
It's instant, soothing, cooling relief for all your itches and minor hemorrhoids.

((( Especially if it becomes more accessible to radio amateurs like me.

It's as accessible as it's ever going to get. Go get a radio!

 

[N8OHU]

D-Star is "complicated" because people didn't work within the specification when adding the linking functionality that has helped make it so popular. In reality, it's no more complicated to use, once programmed, than DMR is, and even the linking part has been simplified to the extreme by the establishment of web sites that contain "calculators" that can create all the needed entries to do whatever you wish to do. My IC-91A is simple to use, and I've done almost all of the programming for everything in it manually. I have yet to program my XPR6500 that I bought on eBay, though I plan to have someone do that when I get to Dayton the next time.

 

[N4KVE]

I have yet to program my XPR6500 that I bought on eBay, though I plan to have someone do that when I get to Dayton the next time.

When I got my 6550 radio, I had no idea how to program it, even though I had programmed many Jedi's & XTS3000's. The 6550 was totally different. I gave it to the repeater owner who simply entered his codeplug only changing the ID # to mine. 1 minute, & it was done. Since then, I have made changes, & learned how the programming works. You can even easily clone a portable codeplug into a mobile. No worry about different firmware between the 2 radios.

 

[MTS2000des]

D-Star is "complicated" because people didn't work within the specification when adding the linking functionality that has helped make it so popular. In reality, it's no more complicated to use, once programmed, than DMR is, and even the linking part has been simplified to the extreme by the establishment of web sites that contain "calculators" that can create all the needed entries to do whatever you wish to do. My IC-91A is simple to use, and I've done almost all of the programming for everything in it manually. I have yet to program my XPR6500 that I bought on eBay, though I plan to have someone do that when I get to Dayton the next time.

No need to use a "calculator" to program a DMR radio. It's a simple as entering a repeater pair, color code and time slot, and talkgroup info. If you've got experience programming modern LMR gear, you'll feel right at home.

IMO even the lowest end DMR radio runs circles around D-star subscriber radios. The 91AD has pathetically low AF output, horrible battery life, and is grossly overpriced for a hammy radio. A Chicomm LMR radio like a Puxing UV973 puts it to shame.

As far as where to buy DMR, there are tons of Vertex dealers selling new with 3 year warranty (no hammy gear comes with that) factory warranty E-Verge radios for as little as $269. Software is easy to obtain, and it uses the same programming cables as some Yaesu ham radios, even if you don't have a cable, they can be had for about $20 US on Ebay.

For the price point, the E-Verge radios from Vertex Standard are attractive, and you get a NEW with 3 year factory warranty radio vs. risking spending upwards of $300 for something with the "guaranteed not be DOA but AS-IS" nonsense of used radios.

 

[N8OHU]

No need to use a "calculator" to program a DMR radio. It's a simple as entering a repeater pair, color code and time slot, and talkgroup info. If you've got experience programming modern LMR gear, you'll feel right at home.

IMO even the lowest end DMR radio runs circles around D-star subscriber radios. The 91AD has pathetically low AF output, horrible battery life, and is grossly overpriced for a hammy radio. A Chicomm LMR radio like a Puxing UV973 puts it to shame.

As far as where to buy DMR, there are tons of Vertex dealers selling new with 3 year warranty (no hammy gear comes with that) factory warranty E-Verge radios for as little as $269. Software is easy to obtain, and it uses the same programming cables as some Yaesu ham radios, even if you don't have a cable, they can be had for about $20 US on Ebay.

For the price point, the E-Verge radios from Vertex Standard are attractive, and you get a NEW with 3 year factory warranty radio vs. risking spending upwards of $300 for something with the "guaranteed not be DOA but AS-IS" nonsense of used radios.

The calculator isn't really needed, but they exist; D-Star programming is essentially the same as DMR as far as needing specific things in specific slots for it to work. As for many of the other things you bring up, some are important to some people and not others; I don't need more audio output from my radios or multiple year warranties, but there are people that insist on those things.

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[MTS2000des]

As for many of the other things you bring up, some are important to some people and not others; I don't need more audio output from my radios or multiple year warranties, but there are people that insist on those things.

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Well, when you spend several hundred bucks on a radio, it is good to know if it lets the magic smoke out, you don't have to drop it in the trash.

Speaking of the Vertex E-Verge radios mentioned, here is a pretty decent review and unboxing with good photos of an EVX-539 UHF portable:

Vertex Standard eVerge EVX-539 Portable Radio Review | VA3XPR

I have seen these sell for anywhere from $299 (for basic non-display) version to $369 for the one shown from various dealers, NEW with full warranty from authorized Vertex dealers.

I would NOT recommend a non-display radio for a first time DMR radio. You can't see the active talkgroup, user ID, or RSSI indicator, or use advanced features like text messaging (on some repeaters/networks).

 

[AK9R]

Folks, this isn't a D-Star thread. We have other threads where that horse is being beaten. Let's keep this thread on the topic of DMR.

 

[wuzafuzz]

To the OP:
Go for it if you want! I recently purchased my first DMR portable, a Motorola XPR 6550, off eBay. I love it! Alternately you can purchase other brands as was suggested by others. They are more affordable as are the accessories and software.

The "time share" repeaters, along with linking capabilities are straight out awesome. After years of tinkering with Echolink and other analog linking methods I am pleased with the simplicity of TRBO linking.

I have P25 gear and find the TRBO radios sound similar when using digital modes. I also know that some of my P25 radios sound much better than others. My Motorola gear sounds much better on P25 than EF Johnson gear. It may be you will find similar differences between DMR brands.

My XPR also happens to be the best sounding analog radio I've ever used. My voice quality gets rave reviews from others, even compared to my other Motorola commercial radios (XTS5000, MTS2000, HT1250, Astro Spectra).

I am very fond of my Yaesu FTM-350's. They do things no commercial radios do. But, DMR is completely awesome and I will eventually add some DMR to my mobile fleet.

Whatever you decide, have fun! There are many niches in amateur radio. DMR/TRBO is just one of them.