DMR-TRBO

[11w5151]

This Yaesu FTM-100DR does not show or say this unit is for DMR-TRBO use. I take it like all the other ones for sale if you want a MOTO-TRBO you should be looking at Motorola for your complete DMR-TRBO unit.

 

[jaspence]

DMR Turbo

Also look at Hytera or one of the CS radios. The Connect Systems radios are very reasonably priced for the entry level user and are fully compatible on the DMR-MARC network. There are other brands that are also compatible, The Yaesu system is not DMR compatible.

 

[TLF82]

I'm not sure I understand the point of this post. Did someone say it's supposed to work on DMR? Are you just trying to make a PSA?

 

[AK9R]

I have found that there is some confusion among amateur radio operators about the Yaesu System Fusion radios. Many folks jumped to the incorrect conclusion that these radios would be P25 compatible which they are not. This is the first I've heard a suggestion that they are DMR compatible, which they are not.

The bottom line is this:

• Icom makes D-Star radios. They can work analog and D-Star systems. Period. There are other people marketing D-Star dongles and hot spots though it's kind of a garage industry at this time. Icom also makes NXDN radios (under their IDAS brand) for the LMR market. Icom also makes P25 radios for the LMR market.
• Kenwood doesn't make anything for amateur radio digital voice. Kenwood does make NXDN radios under their Nexedge brand for the LMR market. Kenwood also makes DMR (I think) and P25 radios for the LMR market.
• Yaesu makes System Fusion radios. They can work analog and System Fusion systems. Period. Vertex, which is no longer associated with Yaesu, makes DMR and P25 radios.
• Motorola and a host of other vendors make DMR radios, primarily for the LMR market though some of these are being marketed towards amateur radio. Motorola, of course, also makes P25 radios.

 

[nd5y]

• Kenwood doesn't make anything for amateur radio digital voice. Kenwood does make NXDN radios under their Nexedge brand for the LMR market. Kenwood also makes DMR (I think) and P25 radios for the LMR market.

Kenwood makes some dual-mode NXDN/P25 radios (LMR, not amateur)
Land Mobil Radio | Communications | Kenwood USA

 

[N8OHU]

I think part of the confusion comes from Yaesu and their "digital roadmap" from 2012. It does mention TDMA.

 

[DaveNF2G]

Some of the confusion might also be due to Yeasu's terminology. "System Fusion" sounds like something that would merge various digital protocols.

 

[N8OHU]

Some of the confusion might also be due to Yeasu's terminology. "System Fusion" sounds like something that would merge various digital protocols.

I haven't looked too deeply into it yet, nut I think Yaesu is using the uLaw output of the AMBE chip as the audio stream for Wires-X and doing a software conversion of analog audio to uLaw so that analog and digital stations can be on the same network, hence "System Fusion".

 

[AK9R]

Their marketing people certainly talk like "fusion" applies to the dual-mode nature of the radios and the repeaters in that, if they are set up for Automatic Mode Switching, analog users don't get left behind as other users move to digital.

 

[PACNWDude]

Digital modes for amateur use.

It amazes me how much this has evolved in just a few years. Throw in the sale people and it really gets interesting.

Tait and Hytera make great radios for digital use from my experience. Motorola Trbo is good but of course they charge for their name.

I just wish someone would sell a radio for amateur use that could do all formats, bands and digital signalling. I know it is a pipe dream, but some of us would pay the price for everything in one radio. This of course throws out the whole legal ramifications of doing so also.

 

[mancow]

edit: wrong post sorry

 

[robertmac]

Unfortunately, all of this is fracturing amateur radio. And from other posts I am not the only one feeling this way. By the time we find out which digital model wins out, there will be others on the scene. And I know when Yaesu announced their digital modes, there were stores saying it was P25 compatible. I guess if you make things complicated enough and with similar terminologies people will buy radios thinking the radios are something they are not. My word would be to not jump at something but to read up on it first. Unfortunately with a hectic life style not everyone has the time to fully understand digital systems especially if not in that market. I'll stick to FM analog for now and continue to delete frequencies that have digital mode on them. At least system fusion has digital and analog on same repeater so can use PL codes. Different story if you want to monitor simplex.

 

[N8OHU]

Unfortunately, all of this is fracturing amateur radio. And from other posts I am not the only one feeling this way. By the time we find out which digital model wins out, there will be others on the scene. And I know when Yaesu announced their digital modes, there were stores saying it was P25 compatible. I guess if you make things complicated enough and with similar terminologies people will buy radios thinking the radios are something they are not. My word would be to not jump at something but to read up on it first. Unfortunately with a hectic life style not everyone has the time to fully understand digital systems especially if not in that market. I'll stick to FM analog for now and continue to delete frequencies that have digital mode on them. At least system fusion has digital and analog on same repeater so can use PL codes. Different story if you want to monitor simplex.

Even though I'm well invested in D-STAR hardware (both Icom and aftermarket), I'm coming around to the position that there will never be a winner, since by its very nature Amateur Radio is about experimentation. It's up to the users to bridge the divide between modes, rather than expect any specific manufacturer that might not have good opinions about a competitor's product to adopt it in a future model of their own digital radio.

 

[DaveNF2G]

D-Star tends to be more expensive to implement for the individual ham than DMR. I don't know how it is at the repeater operator's end. The transceivers that can do DMR start in the $200s, while Icom D-Star equipment costs 3 to 5 times as much per radio.

 

[N4KVE]

Kenwood does make DMR radios.
Walkie Talkies | NEXEDGE | PMR446 | Ham Radio • Kenwood Comms

 

[AK9R]

The transceivers that can do DMR start in the $200s, while Icom D-Star equipment costs 3 to 5 times as much per radio.

Huh?

Lessee...$200 times 3 would be $600.

Icom ID-31A Handheld $294
Icom ID-51A Handheld $399
Icom ID-880H Mobile $419
Icom ID-5100A Mobile $599. Ah-ha! There's full-featured, top-of-the-line mobile D-Star radio that costs $600.

 

[N8OHU]

Huh?

Lessee...$200 times 3 would be $600.

Icom ID-31A Handheld $294
Icom ID-51A Handheld $399
Icom ID-880H Mobile $419
Icom ID-5100A Mobile $599. Ah-ha! There's full-featured, top-of-the-line mobile D-Star radio that costs $600.

And the pricing on the System Fusion gear is similar, for what it's worth.

What a lot of hams overlook is that, in most cases, Amateur Radio is not where the manufacturer makes the bulk of its sales. Instead, for most of them it is a sideline market that may not have the full attention of the Corporate Office in Japan (when talking about the big three Ham manufacturers) or even be the target market (CoValue, Pofung/Baofeng, TYT/Tytera, etc.). The main reason there are 200 USD digital radios to begin with is that the Chinese DMR licensees manufacturer them in such quantities that they can afford to sell for less than the major vendors like Motorola, Hytera and Tait.

 

[N4KVE]

When the Icom ID91A, & 92A came out, they were a lot more money than the above listed radios.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

I think one of the major confusions about System Fusion was that it was advertised as C4FM (same modulation as P25) so a lot of people were thinking it would at least be compatible with something.

$500 repeaters with auto mode settings...seems like a good idea. You don't have to force people to upgrade equipment as you can set the repeater to Auto/Analog so digital or analog goes in but only analog comes out. This however, also sounds like a poor business decision (if there is no incentive to upgrade, why upgrade?) but that's just my personal opinion on the matter.

Will there ever be a winning format? Maybe. Look at VHF/UHF FM. As amateurs we really didn't touch it much in the 60's and early 70's. Manufacturers made AM and SSB mobiles and if you wanted to play with repeaters you had to buy a Motorola or GE radio. Today, the only way you are getting a new production radio that has SSB and AM in the amateur 2m and 70cm bands is to buy an all-mode/all-band radio.

However, I've said it before and I'll say it again. The amateur world is driven primarily about what hams can acquire cheaply (right now that is Yaesu's $500 repeater). My personal bet is P25 will find new found supporters as agencies begin ditching their Phase 1 equipment in favor of Phase 2. We will probably see something similar happen when technologies that are "better" than NXDN and DMR emerge as well.

 

[N8OHU]

I think one of the major confusions about System Fusion was that it was advertised as C4FM (same modulation as P25) so a lot of people were thinking it would at least be compatible with something.

Don't forget that Yaesu had been part of Vertex Standard who is a vendor of P25 and DMR radio gear; most folks were assuming that the digital would be at least in part based on that experience.

$500 repeaters with auto mode settings...seems like a good idea. You don't have to force people to upgrade equipment as you can set the repeater to Auto/Analog so digital or analog goes in but only analog comes out. This however, also sounds like a poor business decision (if there is no incentive to upgrade, why upgrade?) but that's just my personal opinion on the matter.

Some analog users never will upgrade to digital, but enough seem to have been intrigued by demonstrations that they are buying the digital radios