- Joined
- Apr 5, 2013
- Messages
- 13
Any word on anyone coming out with dual band VHF/UHF DMR handheld? Are their currently any out there?
There are several different digital voice formats that are not compatible with eachother.When I searched, I've got a bunch of Dual Band Digital radios, so I'm a bit confused about the whole "digital" segment.
There are several different digital voice formats that are not compatible with eachother.
The Yaesu radio you linked to only works with other Yaesu radios that use Yaesu's C4FM mode. It is not compatible with DMR which is what the OP was talking about.
The one buzzword people are skating around here by calling it "c4fm", while technically correct, is "yaesu system fusion". Designed(adapted is more correct) by Yaesu specifically for the amateur service and adapts to both analog and digital users through yaesu digital ready repeaters. I've seen it used in limited fashion and it definitely seems to have merit if utilized correctly.
Other digital modes that are around and NOT compatible with any other digital mode are as follows but not limited to:
P25
DMR (mototrbo)
Dstar
Any radios that can do the above digital modes can ALSO BE USED in analog and have no issues working with one or another (again, in ANALOG).
Enjoy the digital road.
Very confusing. So now the different digital radio makers all have their own system (like Windows/Mac/Linux) that are not compatible and each only work within the same system? Why would they do that? Analog radios work fine with one another, so I really don't get it. I need to research it I guess.
And I thought I just go and get one of those digital dual-band HTs or Mobiles and that's that.
And how many different radios would one need to purchase to do all of those digital modes?
Um, no about D-STAR being as painful to program as the commercial stuff. At the basic level, which is all you need to get on a local repeater, it's no more difficult than programming an FM radio. The only two things that are different is needing your callsign (MyCall) and the repeater callsign and letter (RPT1, which is functionally the same as CTCSS); it's all the things that the protocol allows you to do with UrCall and RPT2 that makes it seem more complicated.They've always had their own.
Commercially, P25, DMR and NXDN are the standards. P25 is the North American public safety standard. Anyone who is anyone in the the public safety market has a P25 system (with a handful of vendor specific features). It began with C4FM technology and is now using that along side TDMA technology. DMR uses TDMA to divide a frequency into two time slots which allows one to fit two talk paths in the 12.5 kHz channel on the same repeater (P25 Phase 2 was based off of this feature). There are roughly 6 major vendors who sell DMR radios and infrastructure. The other big one is NXDN which uses a 6.25 kHz channel. It's got Kenwood, Icom and Alinco for equipment.
In the amateur world, there is DStar, Icom (soon to be Kenwood as well) and System Fusion (Yaesu).
Take your pick. All of the commercial formats can work mixed mode (analog/digital in/analog out or auto in/auto out) in some form. I haven't played with DStar enough to know what it is or isn't good at (though it seems to be just as painful to program as commercial formats).
For DMR's largest network, yes. Each user has a unique ID. Think of it as a digital version of your call sign. You ID by voice, so this is a digital ID. It's not necessarily per radio...you can use the same DMR ID on several radios, as long as you don't use them at the same time.- You have to register your radio (!!!) by name, unit number, etc. in the provider's system (like Motorola) in order to be able to use your radio on their Digital system. Seriously? I don't think so!
For that one manuf of radios, yes. Although the software from Motorola will keep working after 3 years, you just won't get any new updates. From many others manuf, it's free.- Motorola charges $360- for 3 years of software updates, then you have to pay them again to continue.
Different FORMATS are not. You can use the same P25 radio on many different P25 systems. Same with DMR, you can use the same DMR radio on different DMR systems.- Different systems are NOT compatible with one another on the digital operation at all! Motorola's is the biggest one (for obvious reasons), so if you get another one, there is a good chance you won't find a digital repeater anywhere.
Um, no about D-STAR being as painful to program as the commercial stuff. At the basic level, which is all you need to get on a local repeater, it's no more difficult than programming an FM radio. The only two things that are different is needing your callsign (MyCall) and the repeater callsign and letter (RPT1, which is functionally the same as CTCSS); it's all the things that the protocol allows you to do with UrCall and RPT2 that makes it seem more complicated.
Exactly!
I watched a couple of videos about the topic and heard a few things I didn't like at all. For e.g.
- You have to register your radio (!!!) by name, unit number, etc. in the provider's system (like Motorola) in order to be able to use your radio on their Digital system. Seriously? I don't think so!
- Motorola charges $360- for 3 years of software updates, then you have to pay them again to continue.
- Different systems are NOT compatible with one another on the digital operation at all! Motorola's is the biggest one (for obvious reasons), so if you get another one, there is a good chance you won't find a digital repeater anywhere.
So, in the end, most people will be using the analog part in order to avoid all the extra costs and the hassle, but pay for those radios extra-high prices for being "digital". Well, if all that is true as I understand it, then: NO, THANK YOU! They can keep their precious control-freak watching you 24/7 overpriced systems for themselves!
But again, I only watched a few videos, so maybe I'm wrong about it and I misunderstood the whole thing. (... or not ... )
You have to remember what this system was designed for. Commercial use. We've just adapted it to the ham world... The registration of the radio ID is just to keep track of things and so you can have someones name come up on the display of your radio if you wish. It's not like trunking where you have to have an ID number to affiliate with the system.
Yes you have to pay for the software but you are getting service with among other things. The software price has come down. Moto will sell you a subscription for TRBO CPS for less that $200/3 years now because they offer it via a download only option and they aren't mailing your a DVD.
Before you start slamming things you don't know anything about maybe you should research it a little more. And if its not for your then its not for you. Some of us enjoy it and like what it has to offer and are willing to pay to play. The radios are not cheap because they are on the forefront of technology and are commercial radios. They are built tough and with lots of technology.
A MotoTRBO radio can be used on the Hytera repeaters and several other manufactures systems who make ETSI DMR compliant systems. The same with P25 and NXDN/iDAS. They are standards for a reason.
You have to remember what this system was designed for. Commercial use. We've just adapted it to the ham world... The registration of the radio ID is just to keep track of things and so you can have someones name come up on the display of your radio if you wish. It's not like trunking where you have to have an ID number to affiliate with the system.
Yes you have to pay for the software but you are getting service with among other things. The software price has come down. Moto will sell you a subscription for TRBO CPS for less that $200/3 years now because they offer it via a download only option and they aren't mailing your a DVD.
Before you start slamming things you don't know anything about maybe you should research it a little more. And if its not for your then its not for you. Some of us enjoy it and like what it has to offer and are willing to pay to play. The radios are not cheap because they are on the forefront of technology and are commercial radios. They are built tough and with lots of technology.
A MotoTRBO radio can be used on the Hytera repeaters and several other manufactures systems who make ETSI DMR compliant systems. The same with P25 and NXDN/iDAS. They are standards for a reason.
- That sounds like big-brother to me that I dislike right there and then, because it's nothing else but yet another digital tracking system.
- Gee, seriously? Wow! What a fantastic idea to stop sending out DVDs for software update! I guess they got the memo after a couple of decades! Now the price is only $200 due to this fantastic revelation! Truly impressed! LOL!!!
- Is that how overpriced, under-developed is described and promoted lately? Pay an unjustified amount for an un-developed system, so the developers will have the necessary funds on the back of the hobby community to actually work on something that will be useful in a few years? What "forefront of technology" are you talking about? Digital is nothing extraordinary, it's been around for decades, only the developers didn't bother to implement it into ham, perhaps because the market was/is still too small for it and the old analog system did a pretty decent job (still does as I can tell). Your opinion reminds me more of a corporate PR talk or some lobbyists trying to justify something for all the wrong reasons. DVD? LOL! That was the funniest part! Truly made me laugh!
If things go THIS way, then ham is going to be just another subscription type cellphone service in a few years, because once greedy shareholders get into the hobby with their personal ID based junk-services and their fees, then it will be business for profit only, nothing else. Hope the day never comes because that would be the end of ham as a "hobby", and no, I won't pay for their primitive junk-software or overrated radios and overpriced subscriptions or any other "excuses for a price" deals either.
Digital ham should be just a modern transition into a processor/software based solution for ham radios to replace the analog systems and not what this whole thing seems to be turning into. For all that "other" side, we already have smart devices with tons of free software, superior data transfer speeds that digital hams will never match, and all that with ton's of services and options for a lot less.
You are absolutely right; as things are right now as I see it, digital ham is definitely NOT for me.