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Digital Voice for Amateur Use - Discuss use of digital voice technologies on the amateur radio bands. This is to include technologies such as VoIP, P25, DMR/TRBO, NXDN, D-STAR, etc.

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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2017, 3:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KE0CLC View Post
I would be one of those end users in a dangerous environment and I can tell you that is the exact opposite of the manufacturers desires for a commercial radio, I don't want my radio to key up UNLESS the PTT button is actually pressed by me. My Kenwood TK-5210, HT1250 and every other radio I've had over 24 years has always had a firm PTT button.

The button on the Hytera is best described as "mushy" and it doesn't take much of a press to activate. Again... this is just my first impression of the radio that I just took out of the box a few hours ago.
Interesting. I would have thought the opposite were true. I can envision a man down scenario in which the radio operator is incapacitated, but lying on his radio with the PTT button depressed (or is experiencing great difficulty operating the radio). In that scenario, whoever is listening would know something's wrong.

I'd be interested to hear a hypothetical scenario in which inadvertant PTTs can be very bad for the user. Not trying to challenge you. I just don't know all that I should, it seems.

Thank you!
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2017, 5:37 PM
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Originally Posted by broonzbane View Post
Interesting. I would have thought the opposite were true. I can envision a man down scenario in which the radio operator is incapacitated, but lying on his radio with the PTT button depressed (or is experiencing great difficulty operating the radio). In that scenario, whoever is listening would know something's wrong.
This is what the man down/lone worker feature is for. The radio periodically prompts the user to respond, and if the user does not, the radio broadcasts an alarm without any user intervention or action whatsoever.

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I'd be interested to hear a hypothetical scenario in which inadvertant PTTs can be very bad for the user. Not trying to challenge you. I just don't know all that I should, it seems.
Inadvertent hot mics are potentially embarrassing, and tie up a channel unnecessarily. In a tactical situation, they can be dangerous.
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Old 03-27-2017, 5:42 PM
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Originally Posted by jonwienke View Post
This is what the man down/lone worker feature is for. The radio periodically prompts the user to respond, and if the user does not, the radio broadcasts an alarm without any user intervention or action whatsoever.



Inadvertent hot mics are potentially embarrassing, and tie up a channel unnecessarily. In a tactical situation, they can be dangerous.
Oh, okay. I misunderstood how man down works. Thought you had to depress the button to indicate an emergency, when it's the other way around. Failure to depress when prompted triggers the emergency. Thanks for clarifying!
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Old 03-27-2017, 6:51 PM
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Let me clarify this... the "man down" button, which is the orange button on the top of the radio, is used in an emergency and sends a beacon back to the dispatcher's console. You don't need to say anything and the beacon only ties up the channel for a brief moment.

Pressing the PTT button, as you know, ties up the channel. If the channel is tied up, the dispatcher can't send the cavalry to your aid. I've inadvertently hit the beacon before and it gets everyone's attention.

I've also been in a situation where I didn't have the opportunity to talk on the radio to call for help, so I simply pressed the beacon and after two times where I didn't acknowledge the dispatcher, the cavalry came quickly. In this particular situation, I was fighting with someone and it was all I could do to keep my gun in its holster. I didn't really have time to keep keying up the radio. Simply tripping the beacon with my left hand, non-dominant hand, was all took.

When we first got radios with this feature, we'd walk up behind another officer and trip his radio without his knowledge. This didn't go on for long, but it was fun.
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Old 03-27-2017, 8:21 PM
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Originally Posted by broonzbane View Post
Oh, okay. I misunderstood how man down works. Thought you had to depress the button to indicate an emergency, when it's the other way around. Failure to depress when prompted triggers the emergency. Thanks for clarifying!
Actually it can work both ways.

Lone Worker has a timer (say 10 minutes). When the timer goes off, you have 30 seconds to key the mic or press any button other than Man Down to report you're OK, or the radio will broadcast an alarm.

Or, you can push the Man Down button, and the alarm will be broadcast immediately. You may have to hold it down for a second or two, to reduce accidental alarm activations.

If something catastrophic happens and you are unconscious, Lone Worker will ensure help is summoned eventually, hopefully before you die. But if you are able, pressing Man Down will summon help sooner than waiting for the Lone Worker timer to run out.

In either case, the alarm is a fairly small data packet that takes less than a second to send and doesn't tie up the channel. It identifies your radio as the one sending the alarm, and possibly other data such as GPS coordinates, depending on the capabilities of the radio and system, and how they are programmed.
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2017, 4:01 AM
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100% Correct!!

I was hesitant to try anything other than /\/\ , but required a UHF analog portable
SMALL enough that I could convince the womenfolk (wife & daughters) to even consider carrying around.

(DURING the storm, not a single complaint about size/weight of XTS-2500's & 5000's which received almost non-stop use... POST "Sandy" -- all I heard was "No" & "Find us a radio the size of an iphone and we will consider carrying")

So -- Got a bunch of X1P-U1's & BT earpieces for them.
AND... 3 for me: a PD782-U1 / U2 (for work -- "T-Band") & VHF.

When the PD682 (w/ much wider UHF freq range : 400-520mhz) came out,
I got one to replace the 2x PD782's. It never ended up replacing my u1 & u2 PD782's mainly due
to size & the fact I had already built up a fairly large assortment of accessories / spare batteries / etc.

It's a great little radio as well -- especially for a public safety personal radio for a "ham" --
with my only complaints being: smaller size for my huge hands / PTT button is on the opposite side of the PD782 / battery life is less than the BL2008 "higher capacity" battery for the 782 / antenna connector is the same as the X1P -- BOTH being the opposite of the PD782 & XTS's (Female SMA on X1P & PD682) / no top mounted "emergency button" and the single (vs. 2) side button AND PTT buttons are wayyy too easy to depress unintentionally. ("solved"?? by locking keypad & specific buttons.)

"FPP" does not permit editing of channel name like the rest of their portables.

I haven't a single complaint other than some initial (DMR) data & text messaging incompatibilities
between the Hytera radios & Motorola XPR's. Using XPR8400's & MTR3000's repeaters.
(Fixed w/FW update & modifying a few settings in CPS.)

The "higher tier / larger chassis portables (PD-782 / PD-782G) are VERY WELL made,
easy to operate & program, and have features not native to the /\/\ xpr-7550. The "FPP"
functionality is superb (EXCEPT for the lack of channel "name" editing mentioned above.)

If enabled in CPS, you can easily edit the following directly from the front keypad without the
need for special batteries or dongles etc...:

Analog:
TX Freq / RX Freq / TX CTCSS OR DPL or CSQ / RX CTCSS OR DPL or CSQ /

DMR:
TX Freq / RX Freq / Color Code / Time-Slot / Primary RX Group List /
Default TX Group ID / Radio iD & "alias"

I'm still a Motorola fan for true "public safety" durability (Father's Day rapidly approaching -- cough-cough-- I'm hoping for an APX8000 to limit the number of HT's to lug around-LOL)

(AND, OF COURSE: no p25 phase 1 or 2 in the Hyteras), but for personal ownership / u.c. or investigator "semi-covert" use / etc.. they really do perform quite well.


LAST FEW NOTES:

- For DMR (non-trunk/tier2), Hytera has a GREAT feature called "pseudo-trunking". Too much info to
include, so "google it"

- If using a GPS equipped model (model # ends in "G"), if GPS receiver feature is enabled and turned "on" by user, the following can be displayed on great looking full color display: your current coordinates / speed / height above sea level / number of satellites in range / UTC time / date (no maps included though..
boy scout skills still req'd LOL)

- You can transmit your current coordinates to individual user or an entire talkgroup AND/OR
can "query" the GPS coordinates from another radio (IF permitted in CPS or settings menu).

- if enabled, the "service mode" displays substantial info AND RSSI of signal currently being received.

- Audio quality=superb & LOUD

- Durability: I dropped one of the PD782G's off a roof (approx. 25') into a puddle of mud. I fully
expected to need a dustpan to recover all of the parts!... When finally retrieving the radio, it was still powered ON -AND- was still working. I assumed major damage anyhow so rinsed the mud off with a hose & "dried it off" with a full can of "dust-off".
The only "real" damage: broken belt clip & a tiny "ding" in the bottom corner of the battery !
BUT it looked much cleaner than before the "bath". That was over a year ago & i didn't even have to change the battery. The radio is still operating perfectly! (Hytera really does make a very durable radio and they feel well made compared to some of the "starter" radios like the TYT 380-390 / any of the Connect Systems gear etc.. Not that they are not decent radios, they just feel like cheaply made toys.)


The only negative is the customer support. It used to be non-existant, but is supposedly getting better on the "gov. markets" side of things. For the most part however, they will send you to a dealer.
(the 3 UHF X1P's shipped with the "narrowband only" feature enabled out-of-the-box. Despite
the fact I intended on using the "family radios" w/my GMRS repeaters in addition to a few 70cm "ham" repeaters in the area. It took quite a while to get the dealer I purchased them from to send me over
a "wideband enabling" utility. Once the radio is "flashed" w/this option, it remains "enabled" regardless of programming pc or cps used in the future. Once "flashed", each channel has the ability to be "wide" or "narrow", it doesn't apply setting to entire range of programmed channels -- you can then select 25khz OR 12.5khz spacinf per channel.)

Hytera relies on their dealer network to handle support & interaction w/the customer or end-user.
It sort of makes sense IF your "local authorized dealer" is a decent shop. There are a few dealers
that meet that criteria, but not a huge number.

I'm sure I've left out a bit, but this has been my experience thus far.

But IMHO, you can't really go wrong with the "conventional" Hytera models.
(I have no info on the "amateur" market, but sure liked the initial Gigaparts pricing.!
Hopefully. they are not amateur band freq restricted or any other such limitations..




Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmSixNine View Post
He has to be talking about TYT or Tytera stuff.

Hytera sells good commercial grade equipment. I own a Hytera PD682G and PD782Gu2 and both are great radios, no where near cheap chinese junk.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2017, 4:12 AM
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Originally Posted by KE0CLC View Post

When we first got radios with this feature, we'd walk up behind another officer and trip his radio without his knowledge. This didn't go on for long, but it was fun.
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EDITED TO ADD:
Disclaimer - Purely Hypothetical Fictional Scenario.:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sort of like midnights back in the 80's -- Silently creeping up on another unit on the road who was stopped at an intersection. Then ==> GENTLY "Tapping" the rear bumper hard enough to induce panic, yet not hard enough to cause damage.

Didn't go on for long ONCE AIRBAGS WERE INCLUDED AS "STANDARD EQUIPMENT"!!
ROFLMAO

Last edited by rpurchases10; 05-08-2017 at 4:16 AM.. Reason: ADDED "DISCLAIMER"
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