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Digital Voice for Amateur Use - Discuss use of digital voice technologies on the amateur radio bands. This is to include technologies such as VoIP, P25, DMR/TRBO, NXDN, D-STAR, etc.

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Old 05-31-2017, 12:41 PM
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Lightbulb Price Fixing on the Tytera 2017 ?

Wanted to bring this post from social media on how it appears that the TYT folks are "Fixing the Price" on the upcoming release of the Tytera 2017.....If indeed this is the case, I will NOW WAIT TILL THE RADIO IS SUB $100

Here is the link...

Radiosification: Price fixing and the TYT MD-2017


KN Posted the following which I can not take credit but do agree with him 100%...

"Let's L00K at this for a moment....a company makes a widget and they sell it for $100. OK..the dealer needs to make SOME profit for his legwork. Thats established. But it now looks like TYT makes a few dealers "Exclusive"..then tells other dealers to buy from these dealers! So dealer #1 makes his cut, and dealer #2 now adds HIS cut. TYT limits the availability of said product, while spiking the demand for it (its called prick teasing).So in the end WE ALL pay for this **** and TYT laughs all the way to the bank, as well as dealer #1. Dealer #2 has a rough time and remember both dealers get stuck with DOA and problem products.See how the MD-380 now sells for $79.....let TYT sit on this **** for a while and quit playing games.My "take" on this....in the USA highband DMR is scarce...98% of it is on UHF, no real need for a dualband DMR.No big rush here to aquire a TYT.I would simply buy from another company or wait till TYT quits playing the "Pyramid" game. THis is why I want nothing to do with this CHICKEN$&#% company."

Purpose of this post, is for people to voice their opinions on PRICE FIXING! Hopefully these messages will be seen by TYT and see that they need to rethink that strategy. Cause I surely wont be spending my money till the radio is sub $100.
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Old 05-31-2017, 1:58 PM
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In the US, there's nothing illegal happening here. Neither the incomprehensible blog post, or the profanity filled paragraph, you shared should be considered legal guideposts.

My suggestion is that you read what the FTC has to say about this. MSRP and MAP pricing are long established and legal practices. TYT is within their rights not to sell to any dealer who doesn't agree to their pricing.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/comp...cturer-imposed

This is not price fixing. That is something completely different involving multiple suppliers in a market.

It also doesn't matter what price TYT sells to dealers. Have you ever researched what a Ford dealer pays for an F150 truck and what a car dealer sells it for? That's also an example of price fixing in your definition. But it isn't, and it's also legal.

It also doesn't matter what price you value the radio. Just because you don't want to pay more than $99 for it doesn't make this a crime either.
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Old 05-31-2017, 3:49 PM
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Thank you TBailey1712 for the knowledge you shared as a attorney. I feel better educated now.
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Old 05-31-2017, 4:02 PM
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There are plenty of VHF DMR systems around. What a bunch of drivel.
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Old 05-31-2017, 5:12 PM
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Wow. A company in business to make a profit. What a concept in 2017!
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Old 05-31-2017, 5:59 PM
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Let's break this down.

Dealer 1 pays $80 to TYT's importer for the radio. Let's say that the TYT importer asks the dealer to not sell the radio for less than $100. Dealer 1 sells the radio for $100. At this point, TYT's importer gets $80 for the radio and Dealer 1 makes $20 gross profit.

Dealer 2 wants some radios to sell, but TYT's importer says "you gotta buy from dealer 1". So, Dealer 2 contacts Dealer 1 to buy some radios which Dealer 1 sells to Dealer 2 for $90. Maybe Dealer 1 figures that if he sells a case of radios to Dealer 2, he won't have as much overhead tied up in stocking the radios, so he can afford to take less gross profit. At this point, TYT's importer is still getting $80 for the radio and Dealer 1 is making $10 gross profit.

Dealer 2 then has a decision to make. Does he sell the radio for $100 in order to be competitive with Dealer 1 while only taking $10 gross profit himself? Or, does he sell the radio for $110 in order to make $20 gross profit? My guess is that Dealer 2 will match Dealer 1's price otherwise he'll have some slow-moving merchandise.

Going back to some assertions made by the blogger, we can poke holes in many of them:

"So dealer #1 makes his cut, and dealer #2 now adds HIS cut." Yes, both dealers are going to add some mark-up so they can both make a profit. But, if those mark-ups result in Dealer 2 trying to sell the radio for more than Dealer 1, Dealer 2 is going to find himself with radios that nobody will buy. This forces Dealer 2 to take less profit.

"TYT limits the availability of said product, while spiking the demand for it..." TYT's importer has done nothing to limit availability. The only thing limiting availability is the number of radios they import. The number of dealers available to satisfy the demand has no impact on the demand itself.

"...and TYT laughs all the way to the bank..." Nope. TYT gets the same revenue no matter who sells the radio for whatever retail price. TYT and their importer set the wholesale price and that's the revenue they get.

"...as well as dealer #1..." How so? They pay whatever wholesale price TYT's importer sets and they determine their own mark-up.

"Dealer #2 has a rough time..." Yes, Dealer 2 is probably going to see less profit. That's a business decision for Dealer 2 to make.

Manufacturers or importers setting minimum advertised pricing is nothing new in the U.S. and happens quite often. I think that manufacturers and importers do this to protect their dealers from killing each other. They also do it to keep the market from killing the manufacturer or importer. If the dealers are allowed to set their own price and that price means that the manufacturer or importer can't keep up with the demand, then nobody's happy.

Take a look at the Icom IC-7300 which is very popular right now. Most dealers are selling the radio for around $1350. Why? It wouldn't surprise me if Icom America has told the dealers "$1350 is the minimum advertised price". When the radio first came out, the price was $1595 and demand outstripped supply (Icom America brought 1,000 radios to the 2016 Dayton Hamvention for their dealers to sell and the dealers sold out). Now that supply has caught up with demand, the price is coming down, but I suspect that Icom America is still exerting some control over it.

The linked web site also talks about Minimum Order Quantity (MOQ). This is nothing new and just about every manufacturer or importer does it. They don't want the dealer ordering 1 or 2 of an item.
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Old 05-31-2017, 6:30 PM
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or look over how the GRE dealer pricing worked. (Attached PDF)
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File Type: pdf GRE-Dealer-Price.pdf (13.4 KB, 135 views)
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Old 05-31-2017, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximusTheGreat View Post
Wanted to bring this post from social media on how it appears that the TYT folks are "Fixing the Price" on the upcoming release of the Tytera 2017.....If indeed this is the case, I will NOW WAIT TILL THE RADIO IS SUB $100

Here is the link...

Radiosification: Price fixing and the TYT MD-2017


KN Posted the following which I can not take credit but do agree with him 100%...

"Let's L00K at this for a moment....a company makes a widget and they sell it for $100. OK..the dealer needs to make SOME profit for his legwork. Thats established. But it now looks like TYT makes a few dealers "Exclusive"..then tells other dealers to buy from these dealers! So dealer #1 makes his cut, and dealer #2 now adds HIS cut. TYT limits the availability of said product, while spiking the demand for it (its called prick teasing).So in the end WE ALL pay for this **** and TYT laughs all the way to the bank, as well as dealer #1. Dealer #2 has a rough time and remember both dealers get stuck with DOA and problem products.See how the MD-380 now sells for $79.....let TYT sit on this **** for a while and quit playing games.My "take" on this....in the USA highband DMR is scarce...98% of it is on UHF, no real need for a dualband DMR.No big rush here to aquire a TYT.I would simply buy from another company or wait till TYT quits playing the "Pyramid" game. THis is why I want nothing to do with this CHICKEN$&#% company."

Purpose of this post, is for people to voice their opinions on PRICE FIXING! Hopefully these messages will be seen by TYT and see that they need to rethink that strategy. Cause I surely wont be spending my money till the radio is sub $100.
I am confused. In the past when I bad mouthed TYT, you defended them to the sky, & thought they were the best thing since sliced bread. Now, you are badmouthing them. Looks like you finally came around to my way of thinking. Glad you finally saw the light.
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Old 06-01-2017, 12:02 AM
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Relax Gary Aka Moonboots aka N4KVE...

I am not on your side nor do I agree on how you bash these Chinese radios and those of us that use them. Which in reality I believe EVERY HAM that has an Android or iPhone has a Baofeng. Those with flip phones are the ones that have the Moto's that there friends program them for use on HAM Bands. Yes, I agree that the TX emissions are not to spec on Chinese rigs , but when people use them to monitor and rarely talk on them, then the price is unbeatable. If I'm wrong on people not using them, then please explain why the repeaters are mostly ghost towns?

Because of these inexpensive devices people have been able to buy them and use them. The very own people that you call "Lids"! Because of these "Lids", the hobby has grown exponentially. The fact days of expensive radios have come and gone. Like it or not, it's a fact! A clone will always be available. They will and are produced by the same facility that the name brands come from.

Back on topic... If I can do my part for us to keep our hard earned money in our country. Then great, mission accomplished. If that means I have to wait 6 months before a price drop. Then I'll wait. This is the way with all electronics but for some reason or another. Ham rigs don't go down in price. Which I wonder why? Considering most rigs from the main brands have been around for years with no decline in price. Yet we compare that to cell phones. Well we all know how that works with new releases of iPhones.

To be crystal clear with you... Baofeng produced radios that drove this hobby to where it is now . It brought people from all walks of life into the hobby. I am one of them. I'm not an electrical engineer nor do I care to be one. I enjoy saving life's. That's my passion and my career. That may make me a Lid. Tyt opened the door to all of us into DMR. Dmr was developed for commercial purposes. Thanks to Tytera, we have adapted that technology into the ham world. Just like SharkRF is up and coming. That's a different topic for now. Without these 2 companies the hobby would be full of retirees with nothing else to discuss on the repeaters besides "Medical related issues and ailments" .

So YES, "Baofeng and Tyt have been the best thing since sliced bread!

Last edited by MaximusTheGreat; 06-01-2017 at 12:13 AM..
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Old 06-01-2017, 3:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximusTheGreat View Post
Relax Gary Aka Moonboots aka N4KVE...
Tyt opened the door to all of us into DMR. Dmr was developed for commercial purposes. Thanks to Tytera, we have adapted that technology into the ham world.
I'll agree with you that DMR was developed for commercial purposes, but by Motorola. The first ham radio pioneers of DMR figured out a way to adapt Motorola DMR radios into the ham world. What do you think DMR-Marc stands for? Stay cool in the Florida heat.
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Last edited by N4KVE; 06-01-2017 at 3:26 AM..
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Old 06-10-2017, 6:34 AM
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Did anyone notice the price jump on the TYT MD9600 UHF model? Both the VHF and UHF versions were at $219.99, not the UHF version is suddenly $339.99. I wonder if the ones who did a preorder at the former price will get it for that price.
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Old 06-10-2017, 10:15 AM
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Cell phone prices have not gone down all that much. Lower prices come with lengthy service contracts with a service provider.

I concur with the "Buy American" where possible concept, but when nobody in America is making a popular product, then simply trashing what's available accomplishes nothing.
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Old 06-10-2017, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eaf1956 View Post
Did anyone notice the price jump on the TYT MD9600 UHF model? Both the VHF and UHF versions were at $219.99, not the UHF version is suddenly $339.99. I wonder if the ones who did a preorder at the former price will get it for that price.
There's some indication that the 9600 is going to be dual-band rather than single band, which may account for the price increase.
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Old 06-10-2017, 1:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N4KVE View Post
I'll agree with you that DMR was developed for commercial purposes, but by Motorola. The first ham radio pioneers of DMR figured out a way to adapt Motorola DMR radios into the ham world. What do you think DMR-Marc stands for? Stay cool in the Florida heat.
True, and when I got my license Baofeng didn't exist yet to my knowledge. My first HT was the brick shaped HTX-202. Lots of folks from all walks of life got into ham radio before that company came along.

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Old 06-10-2017, 2:30 PM
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The same person has been banging on about this in the UK forums too, and as somebody who works for himself, trying to make a living, if you sell too cheap, you are little money, another does anyone else, and frankly - radios are way too cheap nowadays. If you are a business user, the notion you should pay more for a licence than the radio is crazy. How much does a round of drinks in a bar cost? How much does a 380 digital radio cost? A dual band radio should be nearly double that price - and how can a manufacturer make money on a niche radio. Commercial users as said above, don't need dual band, so that leaves it the province of the enthusiast market, and how will they get back their development costs?

The public have the right to cheap radios? Really? Why? If TYT make a radio and sell it to a dealer who sells it on for a sensible margin - so they both make money, it cannot be a pocket money child's gift price - it needs to be a professional price, for a professional product.
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