Digital voice encryption

Status
Not open for further replies.

KF4JKY2017

Member
Banned
Joined
Dec 28, 2017
Messages
53
Ham radio needs to encrypted with a universal key that you get after they confirm your license is valid like EchoLink and AllStarlink does with the passwords and other voip system you would get a primary and back up key it would keep boot leggers and pirates off the air causing interference with Communications you never see bootleggers or pirates on EchoLink or any other voip system that does verification of licenses


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

KF4JKY2017

Member
Banned
Joined
Dec 28, 2017
Messages
53
Like with dmr they check to see if your license is valid before you get your dmr Radio id they could also you give the key to program into the radio it would help it stay Secure and safe away from bootleggers and Pirates that cause interference with Communications and it help keep the emergency coms safe and secure during severe weather and disasters


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

KF4JKY2017

Member
Banned
Joined
Dec 28, 2017
Messages
53
e760777494a51de2250a18fa2ff0adfe.png
i did see this tonight on the forum


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

RayAir

Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2005
Messages
1,925
FOUO SBU

Universal Ham Radio Encryption Key
DMR Enhanced Privacy (ARC4)
KeyID: 1
Key: DEADBEEF69

Issued by the Ham Radio COMSEC Coordinator, July 2018 and is valid for a crypto period of 1 year.
 

KF4JKY2017

Member
Banned
Joined
Dec 28, 2017
Messages
53
Yes that is the way It should be done like that


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

KF4JKY2017

Member
Banned
Joined
Dec 28, 2017
Messages
53
The universal key would not expire but like the one guy said it’s never going to happen i wish it would i think it would help us out a lot


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

jonwienke

More Info Coming Soon!
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
13,416
Location
VA
A universal encryption key is useless. Encryption keys are only useful if their distribution is limited.

What you're looking for is an authentication signature-type key, where there is a public portion that can be distributed without limits, and a private portion known only to the user. The public portion of the key can be used to verify that a user originated a message, but cannot be used to sign a message.

Then you just need to get worldwide agreement on what digital signature algorithm should be used for digital ham radio, upgrade every digital radio format to support digital user authentication, upgrade every digital radio in existence with the digital authentication firmware, and add additional CPU power to each radio to support the additional overhead of calculating a digital signature for every packet of data coming out of the radio. And then you have to build, test, and debug the worldwide user management infrastructure that tracks authorized users and their authentication keys.

And if ANY part of that process fails, then either the entire system goes offline, or affected users' radios are effectively bricked.

Somehow I suspect that the occasional jammer is a preferable alternative.
 
D

DaveNF2G

Guest
All of the laws & regulations that prohibit encryption in amateur radio would have to be changed also.
 

KF4JKY2017

Member
Banned
Joined
Dec 28, 2017
Messages
53
Yeah that is true also but you never know maybe one day


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

N2AL

Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2008
Messages
417
Location
Tennessee
Ham radio needs to encrypted with a universal key that you get after they confirm your license is valid like EchoLink and AllStarlink does with the passwords and other voip system you would get a primary and back up key it would keep boot leggers and pirates off the air causing interference with Communications you never see bootleggers or pirates on EchoLink or any other voip system that does verification of licenses

Like with dmr they check to see if your license is valid before you get your dmr Radio id they could also you give the key to program into the radio it would help it stay Secure and safe away from bootleggers and Pirates that cause interference with Communications and it help keep the emergency coms safe and secure during severe weather and disasters


The problem with this is that anyone worldwide can query a user’s DMR identification number. Once this takes place, they can program it into their radio and get on the air. It would not matter if they had a license or not, because they can still get on the air if they choose to do so.

A universal encryption code will not work because it goes back to the same issue I commented on above. People can find anything online and it would only be a matter of time until a universal encryption code ended up on a public forum somewhere.

A universal encryption key is useless. Encryption keys are only useful if their distribution is limited.

What you're looking for is an authentication signature-type key, where there is a public portion that can be distributed without limits, and a private portion known only to the user. The public portion of the key can be used to verify that a user originated a message, but cannot be used to sign a message.

Then you just need to get worldwide agreement on what digital signature algorithm should be used for digital ham radio, upgrade every digital radio format to support digital user authentication, upgrade every digital radio in existence with the digital authentication firmware, and add additional CPU power to each radio to support the additional overhead of calculating a digital signature for every packet of data coming out of the radio. And then you have to build, test, and debug the worldwide user management infrastructure that tracks authorized users and their authentication keys.

And if ANY part of that process fails, then either the entire system goes offline, or affected users' radios are effectively bricked.

Somehow I suspect that the occasional jammer is a preferable alternative.


This is the most likely alternative but it still poses some problems. Some users while using digital radios, are not tech savvy. Therefore that user trying to update their digital radio with new firmware, security updates, etc. is unlikely to happen. Even with help from other hams it would still be a daunting task.

Pretty much it boils down to trusting the F.C.C. to continue enforcement on those who violate the law. It isn’t the choice everyone likes, but there is not much of an alternative.
 

jonwienke

More Info Coming Soon!
Joined
Jul 18, 2014
Messages
13,416
Location
VA
Use RAS. It’s not encryption, but works the same way. Gets rid of the garbage.

Not when the key is distributed worldwide to every ham. The probability of it not being leaked within a week is zero. Especially if one ham wanted to impersonate another.
 

zz0468

QRT
Banned
Joined
Feb 6, 2007
Messages
6,034
Not when the key is distributed worldwide to every ham. The probability of it not being leaked within a week is zero. Especially if one ham wanted to impersonate another.

Yeah, the whole exercise would be completely pointless.
 

Project25_MASTR

Millennial Graying OBT Guy
Joined
Jun 16, 2013
Messages
4,163
Location
Texas
Use RAS. It’s not encryption, but works the same way. Gets rid of the garbage.

Other manufacturers do actually allow one to white/black list IDs for access on their DMR repeaters. I had heard something about Motorola doing offering the same through RAS on the repeater side but I haven't ever had a need for it and as such, don't have a reason to play with it.
 

NavyBOFH

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Aug 11, 2015
Messages
197
Location
Where idiots grow on trees
RAS means only a Motorola repeater and Motorola subscribers - so now you've blocked out every other brand radio.

And before I hear the typical "durr hurr Chinese Baoturd" argument - Remember there's still Hytera, Harris Momentum (Hytera as well), Tait, Kenwood, and Vertex making DMR radios for the LMR sector...

As for the public/private key system - I made a similar post on Reddit and everyone whined about the "why bother" point - I can completely see a digital mode where the radio has a "key" in which your ID and a PIN are in the radio, and validated at the repeater. Have repeaters push the database via IP or RF linking on an interval so all repeaters have the same database and refreshed... but nope. Everyone wants to just lean on the FCC for enforcement and then cry when the FCC won't enforce jammers or malicious interference.
 

djs13pa

Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
71
Not gonna happen. But I will say that I've never heard any QRMers, jammers or illegal operators (that I knew of) on DStar or DMR (both are digital) after several years.



DStar I’ve not heard of any nefarious stuff, however, I’ve heard of multiple DMR ops having IDs stolen and used by other ops.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top