proposal to provide exceptions to monitoring encrypted communications

[wb4dyu]

Consider this:
State statute in many states provide exception for FCC licensed Amateur Radio operators (hams) with respect to transporting radio receivers capable of receiving police and fire communications, while in a vehicle. The law recognizes the temendous contribution to homeland security and disaster relief efforts that Amateur radio operators can,and do offer free of charge.

How about if:
FCC licensed "hams" were to pass an approved government background check, paid for by the individual operator, and then be permitted to purchase a receiver which would be capable of decoding these changing encryption keys. The receiver could be used in a vehicle or at a fixed location. This would be a reasonable exception to the federal prohibition which now exists.

Why do the communications previously open to the public suddenly need to be closed. Where are the statistics that support the assertion by some law enforcement agencies that criminals are, in sigificant numbers, using scanners to assist in the commission of crimes? Should we make the use of say, spoons illegal because they MIGHT be used to promote eating foods that can adversely affect health?

Perhaps Uniden and other manufacturers could lobby congress on this issue.

Anyone have connections with US lawmakers? If so, and you agree, perhaps you could suggest this to them.

What are your thoughts?

 

[NDRADIONUT]

They will just argue that the general population is the enemy of the govt. And get a good laugh at that proposal....

 

[gewecke]

...Not gonna happen.:roll:


73,
n9zas

 

[daveharpe]

Very doubtful that will ever happen. Even if law enforcement was okay with it, to make it work ham operators would have to invest in VERY expensive encryption-capable P25 radios (since there's no way scanner mfrs would bother), AND hams would have to be involved in encryption key maintenance. Just not going to happen.

 

[mancow]

No way in ####.

 

[michaelmikesj]

In the United States we have something called the Freedom Of Information Act. Anything that happens in plain sight of the public is called Public Knowledge. What I don't understand is how these things have become obsolete.

 

[jscurtis]

Never gonna happen. period.

 

[N1508J]

The alternate reason for encryption

Information from MSP and local Sheriff close acquaintances (won’t say from which county) state that the published rational for encryption is to prevent outlaws from hearing LE communications. However, the other so called private reasons are to prevent law abiders from hearing foul, obscene, demeaning and questionable conversation which would be difficult to justify. LE commanders feign their acceptance of public assistance for political reasons, yet the actual participation of the public is an abhorrent anathema. Therefore, it will be a cold day in %#@* before anyone, including amateur radio operators are allowed to monitor encrypted communications.

 

[lep]

Why are we wasting effort on an idea that is NOT going to happen? Just a few reasons:
1. no age limit to be an FCC licensed amateur. QST magainze once published a cover photo of a 5 year old child that was a licensed amateur.
2. no requirement to be a US citizen to be an FCC licensed amateur (I am not talking about reciprocal privileges) any non-citizen can take the examination and receive a US license and call sign.
3. Serving officers in Foreign military service can take the exam and receive a US license at an 'accomodation' address while living in their home country.

Does anyone seriously think that encryption keys are going to be distributed to the above groups because they might have taken a weekend licensing course? (money back if you don't pass the exam at the end of the day).?

 

[K9WG]

Why don't you work at the state level and get a state law that prohibits encryption except for critical communications (i.e. warrent service, drug busts and the like). That would have a better chance then trying to get federal or FCC to act.

 

[mmckenna]

Freedom of Information act could give you access to encrypted communications, just not in real time. I think you would have a very difficult time explaining why you need access to encrypted traffic in real time.

Also, while I am a ham myself, there isn't anything special about us, other than some technical knowledge. We have no more rights to that information than anyone else. When hams start feeling superior to other citizens is when the trouble starts.

At what point does this stop? Law enforcement has been using cell phones for a long time, and we don't have access to those calls. Should hams have special exemption from the laws that prohibit eavesdropping on phone calls, too?

Slippery slope...

 

[K9WG]

Freedom of Information act could give you access to encrypted communications, just not in real time. ... snip ...

And then you would have to pay for "reasonable copying costs".

 

[sfd119]

What would happen if your vehicle with said encrypted radio gets stolen?

 

[zz0468]

How about if:
FCC licensed "hams" were to pass an approved government background check, paid for by the individual operator...

...What are your thoughts?

I think that your idea exhibits a naive misunderstanding about how encryption works, and the reasons it is implemented in the first place.

 

[trumpetman]

I think that your idea exhibits a naive misunderstanding about how encryption works, and the reasons it is implemented in the first place.

Just like every other thread that's about encryption here. Until people understand the reasoning behind encryption and it's purpose, this will continue to happen. We might as well expect people will continue to rant about it's use, demand access, and request firnware that supports decryption until it's fully understood.

 

[SCPD]

Not a chance in a million years. It would be a miracle of they allowed ham users to use encryption between one another in any case let alone monitor police/fed encrypted traffic. Here it takes a act of congress just for certain fire personnel to be able to monitor encrypted police frequencies. Rarely happens at all and if so the person is high up or essential to hear in. Never gonna happen for ham or average user to hear.

 

[gewecke]

Hmm... and again no op?

73,
n9zas

 

[KB7MIB]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; U; en-US) Gecko/20081217 Vision-Browser/8.1 301x200 LG VN530)

Maybe he's only online once a day? This thread is less than a day old.

 

[FFPM571]

Haaaaa Wishful thinking!

 

[Ronaldski]

Never gonna happen. period.

I agree too, but I'd like to see this - ' if we turn off encryption...'
any of the particular departments in question - all internet broadcasts, be it apps, live audio on this site, etc - end.

Lets face facts why they encrypt is because of the more access to their communications. Be it good people or crooks listening in and the crooks can and have taken advantage of it. I know in a recent newscast of nearby saginaw county MI a high ranking sheriff talked about crime and did mention that the crooks listen in on their phones and when there's something tieing up many police is when they know to do their evil acts.