Archie
Member
Going back to the early 70's police conversions from VHF to UHF, which were the first to switch in your neck of the NY state woods??? Here in Westchester, it might have been Yonkers PD or one of the other nearby bigger cities...
NY STATE: The very first UHF PD systems???
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radioman2001
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Yonkers PD switched in 1970 or 1971, they had a VERY special HT-200 with a VHF transmit board and a UHF receiver board. This was I believe to keep other vendors out,since no one could build a dual band portable other than maybe Repco. In Westchester County with the LEAA grants of 1975 the cities of White Plains, New Rochelle and Mt Vernon also went UHF. All other agencies went VHF (MRD) from Low Band at the same time including NYSP.
Of course NYPD went UHF-T in 1973-74, and the last preceints were in Brooklyn and they went in 1979
Of course NYPD went UHF-T in 1973-74, and the last preceints were in Brooklyn and they went in 1979
Archie
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Thanks for the informative posting as usual, radioman2001.
Greenburgh PD was still on VHF in the mid 1970's when I worked in Hartsdale. They had white Dodge Polaras and Gran Torinos.
Would guess they also went UHF not much longer after the others.
The FCC pushed the move to UHF to free up bandwith???
Thanks for the informative posting as usual, radioman2001.
Greenburgh PD was still on VHF in the mid 1970's when I worked in Hartsdale. They had white Dodge Polaras and Gran Torinos.
Would guess they also went UHF not much longer after the others.
The FCC pushed the move to UHF to free up bandwith???
Darkstar350
Member
Nassau County PD launched their 470mhz system sometime in the mid to late 70s
Prior to that they were low band (i think) and there were only about 2 or 3 freqs at that time to cover the entire county
I also heard that when they were lowband there was some annoying tones that would play after each transmission
Not sure what the exact reason for that was but it was rumored to be discouraging people from listening...
With the other county agencies(DPW, etc) it was a grab bag of freqs until the 800mhz system came out sometime in the 90s
NYPD im not sure of but i have heard at one time they used many different bands until they somewhat standardized their 470mhz freqs...
Prior to that they were low band (i think) and there were only about 2 or 3 freqs at that time to cover the entire county
I also heard that when they were lowband there was some annoying tones that would play after each transmission
Not sure what the exact reason for that was but it was rumored to be discouraging people from listening...
With the other county agencies(DPW, etc) it was a grab bag of freqs until the 800mhz system came out sometime in the 90s
NYPD im not sure of but i have heard at one time they used many different bands until they somewhat standardized their 470mhz freqs...
radioman2001
Member
Quote"
Greenburgh PD was still on VHF in the mid 1970's when I worked in Hartsdale. Would guess they also went UHF not much longer after the others.
A very smart former Dept Chief from I believe NYPD took over as Chief in the late 70's. He brought very progressive Policing standards and took what was considered by some to be the worst to the best department in Westchester. Even his Police Paramedics is a page from NYPD who used to run the NYC Ambulances up to 1970. I believe in the early to mid eighties he took them UHF and built the first MDT system (on 800 mhz which was located on the Westchester County Tower) in the county and rented it out to other departments. Greenburg also had their own in house radio shop like NYPD.
I actually still have somewhere the original bid spec books from White Plains and Mt Vernon. Both of which went GE for their equipment.
Quote"
The FCC pushed the move to UHF to free up bandwith???
There was no FCC push I am aware of, and NYPD being the leading Police Department in the US and maybe the world was always looking for ways to improve and extend their radio systems. When T band came out NYPD ( as well as well as NYC Health and Hospitals) grabbed up as many channels as they could using a slow build out plan. I will tell you when Mot was pushing 800 trunked in the late 70's and early 80's NYPD said no thanks, plus the system at the time (Type 1) would not be able to handle the size and number of users and call volume. With over 100 channels and at least 6000 subscribers with who knows how many transmissions a second and over the tough geographic and with in building coverage.
I still consider NYPD's radio system the best in the world, great street coverage good in building coverage. A very good pre-planned backup system available to the dispatcher instantly, and very importantly dispatcher override. I remember reading in one of their bids that a subscriber radio (a portable must still be able to work even if the antenna breaks off. Also part of the bid was that any item or assembly breaks with over a 10% failure, it has to be replaced until the failure is corrected.
Greenburgh PD was still on VHF in the mid 1970's when I worked in Hartsdale. Would guess they also went UHF not much longer after the others.
A very smart former Dept Chief from I believe NYPD took over as Chief in the late 70's. He brought very progressive Policing standards and took what was considered by some to be the worst to the best department in Westchester. Even his Police Paramedics is a page from NYPD who used to run the NYC Ambulances up to 1970. I believe in the early to mid eighties he took them UHF and built the first MDT system (on 800 mhz which was located on the Westchester County Tower) in the county and rented it out to other departments. Greenburg also had their own in house radio shop like NYPD.
I actually still have somewhere the original bid spec books from White Plains and Mt Vernon. Both of which went GE for their equipment.
Quote"
The FCC pushed the move to UHF to free up bandwith???
There was no FCC push I am aware of, and NYPD being the leading Police Department in the US and maybe the world was always looking for ways to improve and extend their radio systems. When T band came out NYPD ( as well as well as NYC Health and Hospitals) grabbed up as many channels as they could using a slow build out plan. I will tell you when Mot was pushing 800 trunked in the late 70's and early 80's NYPD said no thanks, plus the system at the time (Type 1) would not be able to handle the size and number of users and call volume. With over 100 channels and at least 6000 subscribers with who knows how many transmissions a second and over the tough geographic and with in building coverage.
I still consider NYPD's radio system the best in the world, great street coverage good in building coverage. A very good pre-planned backup system available to the dispatcher instantly, and very importantly dispatcher override. I remember reading in one of their bids that a subscriber radio (a portable must still be able to work even if the antenna breaks off. Also part of the bid was that any item or assembly breaks with over a 10% failure, it has to be replaced until the failure is corrected.
D
DaveNF2G
Guest
In Monroe County, Brighton, Gates, Greece and Irondequoit went UHF first, followed soon after by the City of Rochester.
" Even his Police Paramedics is a page from NYPD who used to run the NYC Ambulances up to 1970. "
The NYPD never ran the ambulances in NYC (unless you want to go back to the days when Lincoln was president, and I'm not sure about that either). They were run by the NYC "Department of Hospitals" until the early- to mid-1970s, when the Hospital Dept. was changes to the "Health and Hospital Corporation," with a sub-agency of EMS. At that time, the EMS staff was changed to a highly professional bunch, with EMTs and, eventually, Paramedics, none of which were employees of the NYPD (unfortunately, then, as now, their salaries never commiserated with their professionalism or responsibilities).
Around 1995, EMS was removed from the Health and Hospitals Corporation and put under the administration of the FDNY, and given equivalent ranks and uniforms. However, none of them then were actually "firemen" prior to this, and it is the same today. EMS within the FDNY is a separate "bureau," ("medical branch") with its own command structure (there may be a "fireman" Chief at the very top, not sure), and it's own quarters (for the most part).
The NYPD never ran the ambulances in NYC (unless you want to go back to the days when Lincoln was president, and I'm not sure about that either). They were run by the NYC "Department of Hospitals" until the early- to mid-1970s, when the Hospital Dept. was changes to the "Health and Hospital Corporation," with a sub-agency of EMS. At that time, the EMS staff was changed to a highly professional bunch, with EMTs and, eventually, Paramedics, none of which were employees of the NYPD (unfortunately, then, as now, their salaries never commiserated with their professionalism or responsibilities).
Around 1995, EMS was removed from the Health and Hospitals Corporation and put under the administration of the FDNY, and given equivalent ranks and uniforms. However, none of them then were actually "firemen" prior to this, and it is the same today. EMS within the FDNY is a separate "bureau," ("medical branch") with its own command structure (there may be a "fireman" Chief at the very top, not sure), and it's own quarters (for the most part).
radioman2001
Member
When I was growing up the the Bronx in the 60's and 70's NYPD ran the Ambulances. I remember Green, Black and White bread trucks, and my partner's original shield said NYPD ambulance on it, and was in the shape of a PD shield. I have a 20 year EMS pin from 1990, and I will check with some of the original MVO's who were around back in that time to see if they kept their shields after the move to HHC.
Overall that's why EMS was more aligned with PD that FD prior to Guliani's hijacking of EMS, Transit and Housing PD's.
There was no reason to move EMS to FD IF HHC was given the same funds that FD got after the merger, and there is no reason why there should have not been a fourth service in NYC.
FD rank and file didn't really want them, but they were losing members due to Fire House closures. The brass did want EMS for the funds, and there was a big purge after the merger. The brass wanted to get rid of any remnants of the old guard in EMS. There was even a big stink about EMS wearing white shirts (only brass in FD get white shirts) so everybody came in jeans and T shirt one time to force the issue. I know I was there.
Overall that's why EMS was more aligned with PD that FD prior to Guliani's hijacking of EMS, Transit and Housing PD's.
There was no reason to move EMS to FD IF HHC was given the same funds that FD got after the merger, and there is no reason why there should have not been a fourth service in NYC.
FD rank and file didn't really want them, but they were losing members due to Fire House closures. The brass did want EMS for the funds, and there was a big purge after the merger. The brass wanted to get rid of any remnants of the old guard in EMS. There was even a big stink about EMS wearing white shirts (only brass in FD get white shirts) so everybody came in jeans and T shirt one time to force the issue. I know I was there.
In 1972 Anthony Raymond, a police officer in suburban Chicago was kidnapped and killed when he made a traffic stop and could not get thru on the radio since there were dozens of other towns on the same VHF frequency. That was a direct cause for application of LEAA grants and allocation of TV Channels 14-20 for land mobile services around the large metro areas. While the plans were already being worked on this incident served to expedite the programs.
Chicago had taken the 460 MHz. channels so most suburbs went to 470 MHz. channels where many remain to this day. Since the recent rulings revoking T-Band however many agencies have switched over to StarCom and many more are going to do so.
The big rub is Chicago FD, they just completed buildout of a new T-band P25 system for the fire department. I think it is unlikely that they will be ready to move off of T-Band by the deadline coming up in a couple years.
This parallels the situation in the New York area very closely. Will NY and the rest of the area be able to move off T-Band before the deadline? Will the deadline be extended or scrapped altogether? Will the money promised to relocate current licensees ever be seen?
radioman2001
Member
quote"
Will NY and the rest of the area be able to move off T-Band before the deadline?
Not likely, as has been already spoken about by the Chief of Communications. His comment if they don't move by the deadline was" What are they going to do, take our frequencies". Considing that NYC is the largest terror target (take Tuesdays attack for example) in the world I doubt it will happen anytime soon. Most of the listeners in NYC are very fortunate that most communications are still in the clear. The next generation radios NYPD and possibly FDNY and EMS goes to I doubt will be.
I remember the LEAA grants, that was the first attempt to get everyone on at least the same band of frequencies, but as usual politics kicked it and made quite a mess of it. Some agencies actually hijacking the MRD repeaters for their own use. Overall there were enough VHF frequencies,but only if used in a time sharing function. Each department doesn't need a channel all by themselves, and I suspect that Westchester County New York's new 700 will be an attempt to do that. Even though the FD's have said they are not moving off the T-band analog system that works well for them.
Personal note: I can't stand the sound of digital.
Will NY and the rest of the area be able to move off T-Band before the deadline?
Not likely, as has been already spoken about by the Chief of Communications. His comment if they don't move by the deadline was" What are they going to do, take our frequencies". Considing that NYC is the largest terror target (take Tuesdays attack for example) in the world I doubt it will happen anytime soon. Most of the listeners in NYC are very fortunate that most communications are still in the clear. The next generation radios NYPD and possibly FDNY and EMS goes to I doubt will be.
I remember the LEAA grants, that was the first attempt to get everyone on at least the same band of frequencies, but as usual politics kicked it and made quite a mess of it. Some agencies actually hijacking the MRD repeaters for their own use. Overall there were enough VHF frequencies,but only if used in a time sharing function. Each department doesn't need a channel all by themselves, and I suspect that Westchester County New York's new 700 will be an attempt to do that. Even though the FD's have said they are not moving off the T-band analog system that works well for them.
Personal note: I can't stand the sound of digital.
"When I was growing up the the Bronx in the 60's and 70's NYPD ran the Ambulances"
The NYPD NEVER ran the ambulances in NYC.
The may have DISPATCHED them for a few years, circa 1960s - 1970s, but only for a short time.
The NYPD NEVER ran the ambulances in NYC.
The may have DISPATCHED them for a few years, circa 1960s - 1970s, but only for a short time.
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Darkstar350
Member
WOW i cant belive i actually found this but im pretty sure this is the original low band NCPD license -
ULS License Archive - Public Safety Pool, Conventional License - KEB237 - NASSAU COUNTY POLICE DEPARTMENT
If anyone is curious about historical freqs for their areas the archive license search is always worth a shot - but do remember that many older licenses may not even exist on the FCC website because from what i understand any data that the FCC archived had to have been active at the time whenever the FCC website was first put online which was the late 90s or early 2000s (i think)...
ULS License Archive - Public Safety Pool, Conventional License - KEB237 - NASSAU COUNTY POLICE DEPARTMENT
If anyone is curious about historical freqs for their areas the archive license search is always worth a shot - but do remember that many older licenses may not even exist on the FCC website because from what i understand any data that the FCC archived had to have been active at the time whenever the FCC website was first put online which was the late 90s or early 2000s (i think)...
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