Displayed Address Question

[LSMFT]

Hello,
This is my first post and before I upset many of you with my question I would just like to say over the years I have found the answer to many questions about scanning and the like on this fine forum. You provide a valuable service and the web is better for it.

Thank you.

Now for my question.

I would like to get my Technician Class Ham licence.
I would like to not have my home address listed online.
I would also like to not pay $82 a year for a PO Box.

While looking at FCC's section on changing your address I found this:
"Note: The address and contact information you have entered in CORES registration will not be automatically associated with your licenses. To change the address or other contact information on your license, you must update your information in ULS or submit Form 605 manually."

If I were to get a PO Box then take and pass my test, then update my address via the CORES system online would that updated address be listed in the online data base or would my original PO Box be listed?

I would appreciate an actual answer from someone who knows.

In return allow me to answer some of the questions that come up anytime someone ask about not having their home address linked to their call sign in an online database.

No I am not a felon,nor am I running from the law or a sex offender.
Thanks for asking.

Yes I am aware for $20 or anyone can learn anything about almost anyone.

I am also aware that if you are a property owner your home address and name are a matter of public record.

I know it seems strange,paranoid and just against the spirit of ham radio to many of you but I really would prefer that my name and address not be on an online database and linked to a call sign I am required to repeat on the air waves every time I transmit.

If the database were restricted to licence holders only I would have no objections.

I know that self policing is a big deal in the ham community and many would prefer to have my home address so that can come confront me face to face over any perceived rule violation.

Should I violate any rules is is a simple matter for a few hams to conduct a "fox hunt", follow my signal and show up on my doorstep to alert me to the error of my ways.

I intend to to my best if licensed to make that unnecessary.

I know many of you will write this off with a response of "Them's the rules. If you don't wan't your address listed and don't want to pay for a PO Box, don't get a licence."

That is well and good.

Just consider I am not the only one that feels this way.

By many accounts Ham enthusiast are not getting any younger.
At this point someone will mention their club that just licensed 100 6 year olds or whatever.
I say good for them but on average they hobby is not getting younger.
If you would like to add to your numbers one way to do that would be to persuade the FCC to limit the data base of licence holders to other licence holders.

I now eagerly await the many responses explaing just how wrong I am and possibly, if I am lucky, an answer to my question.

Thank you and good day.

 

[prcguy]

I had been previously licensed then put in for a change of address online with the FCC to a PO box. If you look up my callsign now online it will show the PO box but you can click around and find the change and my old (actually current) address. Not sure how that works if you have only registered with CORES but don't have any licenses yet.

I also worry what is available online. Say you post a picture of your neat $20k ham station in RR or Yahoo groups or egad, Faceless Book, then elsewhere you post about your upcoming two week long ham radio trip to some rare place. Running your callsign will get your address and a map to your house. Google Earth will have a picture of your house and yard with entrances and exits plus maybe your cars parked in the driveway. Now everyone will know what you have, where its located and where you will be for the next two weeks. I don't like it therefore I never post my callsign.

 

[LSMFT]

How often to you get mail from the FCC?

How often do you get mail from the FCC?

I know they have resisted attempts from the ARRAL to use email for all correspondence.
I'm curious how often they actually send a letter.
It is my understanding that they no longer send licences via USPS unless requested to do so,

Do they send renewal reminders?
If so when?
If you renew on the 89th day before your licence expires would you still be sent a reminder?

Thank you.

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

.
I can't speak for others, but personally I have never received a letter from the FCC. I have received many telephone calls from them (all work related, I'll quickly add ) -- I even have a family friend whose an Engineer-in-Charge---- but nary a letter.
.
If your license expires, it expires- the FCC won't send you any reminder. However, there seems to be a few amateur radio organizations that keep track of those things and will notify you when it gets time to renew. They don't seem to require any membership in their organizations- but its best to keep your eye on your own calendar.
.
Its my take the FCC regards Ham Radio as an innocuous hobby- and unless you are in that 0.001% of truly bad truble makers, you will never hear from them -Ever --
(Much less get a letter.)
.
On the other hand, this wasn't always the case.
.
You might say the FCC used to have more time on its hands for things like ham radio. Case in point- I have quite a nice collection of "Pink Slips"- the old jargon for infraction citations- sent to my grandfather in his youth. Government monitoring stations got to know him quite well for his 'chirping' CW tonal qualities, and out-of-band harmonics.....
.
Bye the bye, this Spring - again work related- I was an invited guest to the 12th Street office of the FCC. In a casual query of my hosts I asked where the amateur radio division was.......
.
................... Shrugged shoulders ...........
.
.
Lauri
.
.

 

[ipfd320]

Hey Lauri--Thanks for the Advice you Wrote *( However, there seems to be a few amateur radio organizations that keep track of those things and will notify you when it gets time to renew)*

Our Meeting is Tonite and this is a Good Question to Bring Up and to Implicate if they Do Not

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

I cannot agree with PRC more strongly- you want to stay as private as possible LSMFT.
.
.
The FCC wants a contact address- somewhere they can send you correspondence. But if you've read my other post you'll see that is highly unlikely. They don't mail out hard copy licenses anymore- Not such a bad thing really- for you can now print your own at your leisure on the paper of your choice (I personally printed several of mine on a light pink paper with a smiling my burro faintly in the background.....they do smile, really... )
.
But the issue of privacy is a big one. I don't want, and I can tell you don't want, your personal stuff out there either. I have to use a PO Box for my home address since its in the wilds- but I take it even a step further by using, for my radio license, the PO address of a dear friend (who doubles as my QSL manager- should I ever get a card)--- she lives a 1000 miles from my physical location- so anyone looking me up can get a tad confused if it comes to beam headings etc. That's just way the cookie crumbles....
.
It used to be the FCC required a physical location for your station and a mailing address- not necessarily the same. On one modification of my license (you had to modify your license every time you moved- and if it was into another call district- they issued you a new (!) callsign- thank goodness they stopped that practice!-- or you could be a permanent 'portable' and file a notice yearly with the FCC......)
.
.... I'm really digressing, Sorry--- On that above occasion I listed my station's geographical coordinates-- no towne, street etc.... but just the Long./Lat. numbers-- these alone were duly printed on my license as my station location -- nothing else (it was Alaska, btw...)
.
Since you will not be receiving your license in the mail, but rather by the 'Net- you can use anything you like as your contact address- just as long as its a Good contact location. Your work address, maybe? a relative perhaps?-- someone like my friend who will forward "FCC Official" mail in the highly unlikely event you ever get any.
Just be aware that the address you use will be the one your callsign will be based on- so if you live in Nevada, for instance, but work across the state line- using a California contact address will get you a "6" callsign, and not a "7" for Nevada.
.
Good luck on your pursuit. Those were good questions .....
.
.

Lauri

.
.
.

 

[AK9R]

The FCC will not send you a letter when you license is about to expire. Other organizations, such as the ARRL or the W5YI Group, may send you a letter and offer to renew your license for you...for a fee. There's no need to pay them as you can renew your license on the FCC's web site for free.

 

[LSMFT]

Thank you all for the helpful responses.

I searched the archives for privacy questions and let's just say many of the responses were less than cordial.

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

Its unfortunate that you met with the 'Uncordial"..... Ham Radio is really filled with some of the nicest people (for instance, I'm home this weekend and just did a SOTA mountain top activity- everybody was a pure pleasure to talk to ) -- but as you're finding out, that is not something to take for granted in this hobby.
.
Amateur radio is quite a unique past time - it requires a smattering of technical interest; ----some social skills...... I think the social skills part gets overlooked far too often. After all, it doesn't take much to technically become a 'ham,' and that Fishbowl get's filled with a quite the cross section of the population- from the Saints to the Vulgar.
.
In these Forums even the newest Newbie can quickly pick out the ignorant, the mean, the vindictive - But they are just the cross section of others you'll meet in life. Its too bad they are often the ones a newcomer first encounters when they express's an interest in this hobby, --- and ends up thinking we all are a bunch of jerks.,,,,,
.
I am not sure what prompted me to this dissertation- maybe as a female in this predominantly male enclave I've felt it more acutely, and therefore tend to be sensitive for others when I hear of it-- or, mostly its was just to reassure you that the vast majority you will meet as a ham will be like my SOTA contacts.
.
Choose your operating practices wisely and your ham friends carefully ---and chances are you will rarely encounter the "Uncordial."
.

.
.
Lauri

 

[needairtime]

Luckily I have not received any spam mail yet from any source related to ham radio. I was wondering when I'll start getting HRO flyers, etc. but luckily not.

I have to agree with prcguy, which unfortunately means I can't prove to anyone here I actually am licensed, just because of the privacy issue. However I do identify on radio, as required by law. I figure that people with a radio at least invested in it, but the internet? How many people using free wifi, free internet services, actually invested in the infrastructure?

I do have to admit that it does get me riled up when someone does something illegal on the ham bands because those are the most likely to seek revenge against someone with a proper ID.

I figure it best stay quiet and carry a big ... RDF antenna...

 

[LSMFT]

Just a follow up.

A good friend who happens to live in another county let me use his address.

I took the Technician and General exams on Saturday and passed them both.
I missed one question on both test.
On the General it came down to lucky guessing on a few questions.

Is it worth it to get the Amateur Extra licence?
Do you get much more than bragging rights?

I have a Baofeng UV-82 on order and will look in to seeing if a couple of commercial radios I have can be re programmed to ham frequencies.

Thanks again for all your help

 

[K7MFC]

A good friend who happens to live in another county let me use his address.

Why though? Knowingly supplying a false address as your own on the FCC application seems like it could cause more trouble than just ponying up $20 for a PO box for 3 months. And now your friend is potentially at the receiving end of anyone wanting to take nefarious actions against the holder of your call sign? I wouldn't my privacy to be at the expense of a friend's. Maybe I'm just a party pooper that prefers not to falsify federal documents lol... Lots of comments here indicating that the FCC doesn't actually mail anything, but I received both my Amateur and GMRS authorizations via USPS within the last year.

 

[needairtime]

Both false and invalid (once your PO Box expires) addresses are no good to the FCC. They don't seem to send anything right away at least, but don't know at a later date.

The only visible thing about having an Extra is that you get to choose all of the possible call signs, and no longer need to worry about whether a part of the band is acceptable for general vs extra. I just took advantage of the next exam element being free when you pass an element at that sitting.

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

.
Is the Extra Class license worth it, LSM ? Hmmmm....a good question, and I don't know if my answer is going to be a good one, but it will be entertaining ** ...you can decide.
.
And I summarize in the end.
.
I am an Advanced Class. I stopped there (long ago) because of the code requirements- back in the days when I could have been actively called "into license chasing." I was getting fairly good at 20 WPM, which was the requirement then...if I remember correctly, the test required straight copy, not the later multiple choice questions on what was sent. That's pretty D*** fast to write out- even in long hand - I never could transition to write out code-copy into script, -- I'd block print letters, and I had truble doing that fast enuff.
........ ALSO at that time, I would have had to go down to an FCC examining station to take the test. I knew some hams that actually took portable typewriters (allowed) with them for the code part for that very reason.
.
My grandfather was an "Old Extra Class"- his license dated back to the days when you had to be a General or something for a few years, show an active logbook plus some other requirements. There was a written exam that approached sitting a dissertation, and, but of course, the code -- sending and receiving - letters, numbers and punctuation marks- at 20 WPM.
.
Pass all this, and in those days, you received The Glory. A nice certificate suitable for framing - and the Glory to being a Super Ham. No additional operating privileges- but a really handsome diploma to hang on the wall. (I have his it today.)
.
My father, also a ham, is , like me is an Advanced Class. I used to chide him about why he didn't go for the Extra Class license like his father. His answer...
.
"That for people with too much time on their hands-"
.
And I have used that as my snarky answer today.. tho the requirements, the tests, the operating privileges have long since changed. Also too, being an Advanced clearly shows that once upon a time I passed a 13 WPM code test. Not much glory in that these days, but pride extinguishes slowly....
.
________________________________________
.
I said I'd summarize-- Today, if you want all the goodies, go for the Extra. For me the "goodies" difference between Advanced and Extra are just slivers of Khz's in three 'phone bands I never had much interest in, .... and some CW segments (whoopee!)
(Personally I like the HF WARC, and the 60 metre band - but that's me. Those you can operate with a General Class license.)
As a General, however, the other HF band privileges may be significant. Plus you can select a callsign from any of the different prefix blocks as an Extra.
.
If your eager to push on with the license quest, and still primed by your recent success's- (congratulations btw ) Then go for the Extra. You might want to take a breather and explore the HF bands first, tho. After all, you have plenty of time on your side. With the General Class you have a lot of options, now, as is.
.
.
Lauri
.
.
__________________________________________________
.
** written at 30, 000+ feet over an endless ocean- perfect setting with plenty of time for story telling... sit back; here is one...
.

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

Quote--
"Why though? Knowingly supplying a false address as your own on the FCC...."
.

.
I just saw this... the address used for the FCC is a contact point- a mailing address that is good for receiving official mail from the FCC. It isn't a "false' address- nothing under-handed here. For that matter, a PO Box can be a deception- it isn't the physical address of the recipient.
Ever use an APO address ?... talk about a vague location- yet perfectly legal as far as the FCC is concerned.
.
The big issue is when applying for the license- what you list as your physical location is what they will use to determine your callsign. It can be altered later as a Vanity callsign, but if the initial address has "Nevada" in it, it will come back as a "7"..... if its Virginia, you will be a "4." (I don't know what will happen today if you use my APO example-- though I had a friend apply for a license while we were out in the Pacific, using an "APO San Francisco, California" and they received a "6" callsign....
.
The requirement is a valid contact address- nothing more. Rent a PO box if you like, but keep it current or change your mailing address with the FCC later --- After all, its only going to be used to send agents out after you when you errantly show up on an Air Force One's frequency....
.
.
Lauri
.

 

[K7MFC]

My question was more about LSMFT using a friend's address as a supposed layer of identity protection more so than worrying if the FCC has an up to date contact address on file. Using someone else's contact info may be shielding the licensee's location, but it is doing so at the expense of that other person. If in the unlikely event someone is going to use my call sign as a way to find my location and do harm, I wouldn't want my friends or family to be unknowingly involved because I used their address. Using a friends or relative's address is not a great method of identity protection imo, it's just shifting your risk onto someone else rather than mitigating the problem.

 

[LSMFT]

I don't consider this a false address.
I will get anything sent to it.
That is why I did this instead of getting a PO Box for 3 months.
If the FCC needs to contact me next year, my friend will let me know I have mail and I will come and get it or he will send me pics of it.

I don't see how it is any different from getting an address at The UPS Store or using any of the mail forwarding companies out there.

The FCC doesn't seem too concerned about knowing your physical location because they allow PO Boxes.
I will do my best to operate in such a fashion that the FCC can remain unconcerned about my physical location.

In response to K7MFC's comment of 11:18 AM he is correct, it is by no means a perfect solution.
It just so happens I really care about by privacy and my friend doesn't
The distance from where I will be operating to his house provides some safety.
I will make a point to watch what I say on the air.
None of the "This is BR549 and I just got $10,000 in new equipment delivered to the shack. Shame I will be going on vacation tomorrow and not be home to use it" kind of transmissions.

Oh Lauri, thanks for the congrats and the explanation!
I might go for the Amateur Extra later on down the road, but I probably wont.

I can see why many of the old hams look down on the recent "no codes" like myself.
They used to really make you work for it!

I had one of those Radio Shack 160 in One project kits as a kid.
I built a Morse code practice oscillator but could just not get the hang of tapping out the code.

I looked in to getting a licence back in the late 90's and was surprised you still had to know code.
If I would have realized they got rid of the code requirement in 2007 I probably would have gotten my license sooner.

I know they don't mail out paper licences any more.
I wish they would give a link to something fancy to print out.
Oh well, I am just glad to have passed the test.
Much of that info I will never use again unless I take the Amateur Extra test.

 

[Lauri-CoyoteFrostbite]

I hear you Matt, that's why I also suggest'd the use of a business address as an alternative-- among other creative identity ruses. And of course it must be with the permission of the address'ee owner.
As a female I have some security issues most males and large family household don't... so I use a friend's PO Box address for my license information to get the maximum geographical separation between me and the thee's...
.
My point was not to give a lecture on how to 'ham safely' in a cyber world- it was to point out whatever one chooses to use as their FCC contact point only has to be good...
.
And if its:
.
.... "Lauri's Mailbox,
Fool's Gulch Trail,
HC** Husky Sledge Route 6
Northwest Arctic Borough,
.................. Alaska...........
.
........ and it gets me the US Mail- then its Okay with the FCC.
.
Lauri
.
.
-----------------------------------
.
** HC.... "Hired Carrier"..... a contract rural mail courier

 

[MTS2000des]

I don't consider this a false address.
I will get anything sent to it.
That is why I did this instead of getting a PO Box for 3 months.
If the FCC needs to contact me next year, my friend will let me know I have mail and I will come and get it or he will send me pics of it.

I don't see how it is any different from getting an address at The UPS Store or using any of the mail forwarding companies out there.

The FCC doesn't seem too concerned about knowing your physical location because they allow PO Boxes.

and that is all that matters, if the FCC sends official correspondence regarding station operation (which usually but not always comes via certified mail), so long as the recipient gets it, that is all they are concerned with. Friends' house, employer address, UPS store, they don't geo verify or validate an address like a PSAP. If you get the correspondence when the FCC sends it, this is all that matters.


Now when they send something certified and it gets rejected by USPS, then one may have an issue.

 

[Movieman990]

Lucky Strike Means Fine Tobacco ?