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GMRS repeater coming to OC..Antenna question

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Josh380

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Orange County, CA
I've got a gr300 repeater coming to me tonight, and I'm using a 2 antenna setup in a vertical configuration. Antennas will be mounted on a 20ft push up pole. The pole will only be extended roughly 15 ft. Property is 452 ft above sea level, and the average terrain is much lower than that.

Now to the questions. How far apart do my antennas have to be (keep in mind, vertical config)?
Is it necessary for my receive antenna to have a ground plane?
 

prcguy

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So Cal - Richardson, TX - Tewksbury, MA
Do you have any band pass filters/cavities for the receiver and transmitter? If not it may not be practical to get enough spacing to eliminate all desense. What freq do you plan on using?
prcguy

I've got a gr300 repeater coming to me tonight, and I'm using a 2 antenna setup in a vertical configuration. Antennas will be mounted on a 20ft push up pole. The pole will only be extended roughly 15 ft. Property is 452 ft above sea level, and the average terrain is much lower than that.

Now to the questions. How far apart do my antennas have to be (keep in mind, vertical config)?
Is it necessary for my receive antenna to have a ground plane?
 

Josh380

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Joined
Mar 29, 2015
Messages
326
Location
Orange County, CA
It's gonna be on 462.725. No band pass filters at the moment. I've read that a horizontal setup needs to be about 10ft apart. I have no plans to use a duplexer. Too much money, too much hassle.
 

baltimorecs

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Baltimore, MD
10 feet apart vertically works well for me for GMRS with a GR1225 repeater.

Ground plane depends on the antenna. I have Browning fiberglass antennas that do not need it.
 

N4GIX

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Hot Springs, AR
Just don't expect too much in the way of coverage under those restrictive heights. Set the receive antenna to be the highest one to allow the receiver the best "ears" as possible. I'm sure you're going to have a lot of fun with the GR300 repeater, which is the whole point for most of us, eh? :D

Just to provide some perspective, I have a new Bridgecom BCR-40U repeater here with a solid 45w out of the duplexer's antenna port temporarily feeding a unity gain J-Pole at about 28'. I currently can get about 4 miles using a 4w HT, and about 10 miles with a 10w mobile.

I have a Comet CA-712EFC 9.8 dBi antenna and expect my ordered 60' of 1/2 heliax to be delivered on Monday or Tuesday. The first nice weekend I hope to gather my "antenna crew" together to install it all on my roof giving it about 50' height. In the meantime I'm searching for some "vertical real-estate" for a permanent home.

Anyway, have fun and be sure to keep us posted on your progress! :lol:
 

prcguy

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So Cal - Richardson, TX - Tewksbury, MA
10ft horizontal is not enough unless you have an exceptionally good receiver and very clean transmitter. The mobiles used in a GM300 are not that good. Having a duplexer with good antenna makes the difference between a county wide repeater and a neighborhood repeater, Which do you want? I have a garage full of duplexers, circulators, antennas, etc for UHF. PM me if interested.
prcguy


It's gonna be on 462.725. No band pass filters at the moment. I've read that a horizontal setup needs to be about 10ft apart. I have no plans to use a duplexer. Too much money, too much hassle.
 

jim202

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Mar 7, 2002
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New Orleans region
I've got a gr300 repeater coming to me tonight, and I'm using a 2 antenna setup in a vertical configuration. Antennas will be mounted on a 20ft push up pole. The pole will only be extended roughly 15 ft. Property is 452 ft above sea level, and the average terrain is much lower than that.

Now to the questions. How far apart do my antennas have to be (keep in mind, vertical config)?
Is it necessary for my receive antenna to have a ground plane?

Lets put it in technical terms. In order for a repeater to play correctly, it needs some 90 to 100 db of isolation between the RX and TX antenna signals. How you obtain this is up to you. It can be cavities, vertical separation or horizontal separation.

I will say that horizontal separation is much greater than vertical separation. I am sure if you do a search on the internet for horizontal antenna separation for repeater antennas, you can obtain just what is needed for spacing between the antennas.

Your next issue will be just how good the coax cable is for keeping leakage down. Don't forget the shielding that is needed between the receiver and transmitter. The better the receiver pass band is the better your system will work. How well your receiver reacts to high level signals off frequency is very important.

A simple single pass band cavity on the transmitter will clean up any noise and crud it transmits. You don't have much control over this other than not using some cheap japtrack radio. Same goes for the receiver. A pass cavity on it will help a bunch.

You may not want to buy a duplexer, but investing on a couple of pass cavities will make a world of difference on just how well your package performs.

Trying to run your antennas at only 15 feet is a waste of time. Your not even above the local trees at that point. I doubt your going to hear the repeater more than a mile away at best. Getting back into the repeater with a portable will probably not even be that far.
 

bill4long

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Aug 6, 2012
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Indianapolis
It's gonna be on 462.725. No band pass filters at the moment. I've read that a horizontal setup needs to be about 10ft apart. I have no plans to use a duplexer. Too much money, too much hassle.

Forget about multiple antennas. You can get a Jiesai mobile duplexer brand new on Amazon or Ebay for under $100. Chinese knock-offs of Celwaves. They tune them for you at the factory before shipping. I've got two of them. One of them on a ham radio repeater operating 24/7. They would not be suitable if your antenna was on a high-RF commercial tower, since they only are triple notch-only reject per TX/RX. But for a "backyard" repeater, or a repeater that is not around other UHF 70cm repeaters, they work just fine.

UHF Duplexer: Radio Communication | eBay
 
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Josh380

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Orange County, CA
prcguy: At the moment I'm renting-to-own the repeater. I'm getting it for $200. $20 a month. I have no budget at all for a duplexer. If I had the money I'd get a duplexer. It would be better for coverage. If there's anything we can work out pm me.

My current antenna sits roughly 6.5ft off the ground on the roof of my shack. I have no problems getting into the repeaters in Los Angeles with full quieting. Even on my 5w handheld with a rubber duck. Granted those repeaters are on mountains, but I'm on top of a hill that overlooks most of the South Orange County area. I'll take a pic and post it so you guys can see exactly what the view looks like. I'm planning on getting some lmr400 coax for this setup.

N4GIX: Thank you for answering my next question before I even asked. So, I'll mount the receive antenna at the top.
 

prcguy

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So Cal - Richardson, TX - Tewksbury, MA
I have a big Phelps Dodge/Cellwave 100dB 250w pass/reject duplexer ready to go on your freq for what you are paying for the repeater. What brand and model antenna are you using? I also have real Celwave 5dB Stationmasters and other antennas laying around here.

I would avoid using any LMR cables like 400, etc, they are known to cause intermod in full duplex systems. If its a short run you may get by with RG-213 or RG-214 and I have that. I also have a few short runs of 1/2" Andrew Heliax, which is the preferred type of coax for repeater use.
prcguy

prcguy: At the moment I'm renting-to-own the repeater. I'm getting it for $200. $20 a month. I have no budget at all for a duplexer. If I had the money I'd get a duplexer. It would be better for coverage. If there's anything we can work out pm me.

My current antenna sits roughly 6.5ft off the ground on the roof of my shack. I have no problems getting into the repeaters in Los Angeles with full quieting. Even on my 5w handheld with a rubber duck. Granted those repeaters are on mountains, but I'm on top of a hill that overlooks most of the South Orange County area. I'll take a pic and post it so you guys can see exactly what the view looks like. I'm planning on getting some lmr400 coax for this setup.

N4GIX: Thank you for answering my next question before I even asked. So, I'll mount the receive antenna at the top.
 

cmdrwill

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Mar 30, 2005
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So Cali
PRCguy, were you selling that 'real' antenna?. A friend in OC needs one for GMRS. an old junk Maxrad with deteriorating fiberglass.
 

Josh380

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Orange County, CA
Here are some pics of the surrounding area from my hilltop:
 

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Josh380

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Orange County, CA
Roger that 3 0 0-Go Ahead!

Coverage should be good to the north of my location, so you're good. I dunno about those to the south though.
 
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