I've been skimming these forums trying to get a read on the GMRS landscape...

[Jasphetamine]

... and I get the distinct impression that even the responsible people here who genuinely strive to adhere to FCC regulations are stuck trying to figure out what exactly they are adhering to.

I'm new to the scene, and I was wondering if this was brought about by the arrival of the "Uh, you can't sell that here..." Chinese radios. The FCC must be absolutely going insane at how stuck in the middle they wound up, but as sorry as I feel for them it isn't a good enough excuse for this mess I'm seeing.

I searched Google for GMRS license, and I couldn't figure out where I type in my address, SSN, and credit card number. It is literally more obscure than getting a handgun license. I am not joking.

Oh, I also found out from researching here that I've been breaking the law! Great!

Weirdly my little Motorola MR350R's I bought from a Radioshack on the way to a last minute job with a small crew will pump out a full five watts if you use the upper PTT button (the one that your finger naturally falls on and juts out past the legal one.) So adding to the charming feature where if someone presses the alarm button comms are flooded with a siren (superglued those stupid buttons after day one) MR350R's also help you be part of the problem.

In the era of the iPhone, who would think short range half-duplex comms would take this much effort.

 

[toastycookies]

In the era of the iPhone, who would think short range half-duplex comms would take this much effort.

New iPhone $600
New Motorola MR350R $30


Maybe you should be looking at a larger budget for your comms...

Or just use the iPhone?

 

[Jasphetamine]

New iPhone $600
New Motorola MR350R $30


Maybe you should be looking at a larger budget for your comms...

Or just use the iPhone?

I have six MR350R's. They don't get the job done. I have another thread asking for advice on which Motorola radios to upgrade to. However, it is against forum policy to cross-post so I won't link it here.

My iPhone is in no way suitable for a loud, rough, high stress environment. It has no big easy to reach PTT button I can easily actuate after hastily grabbing it. It gets popup alerts.


Thank you for such a warm welcome; I appreciate the sincerity with which you advised me.

- The new guy.

 

[wyShack]

Jasphetamine-

To obtain a license you need to go to the Federal Communications Commission website. that can be found here:

https://www.fcc.gov/general/general-mobile-radio-service-gmrs

And to a certain extent your frustration is understandable. The radios that are sold generally have information on licensing but in the 'fine print'. The link above will also get you some more information on GMRS. One item that you may find ironic is that GMRS is no longer really meant to be used for business purposes in that the license is for each person and their family (not employee) . depending on your actual needs you may want to check out MURS service the rules for both are in part 95 of the FCC's rules (which covers personal radio services like CB) if after some reading you find it is not a good fit, you may want to talk to a local radio shop about a business license (and radios) .

Hope this helps

 

[Jasphetamine]

Jasphetamine-

To obtain a license you need to go to the Federal Communications Commission website. that can be found here:

https://www.fcc.gov/general/general-mobile-radio-service-gmrs

And to a certain extent your frustration is understandable. The radios that are sold generally have information on licensing but in the 'fine print'. The link above will also get you some more information on GMRS. One item that you may find ironic is that GMRS is no longer really meant to be used for business purposes in that the license is for each person and their family (not employee) . depending on your actual needs you may want to check out MURS service the rules for both are in part 95 of the FCC's rules (which covers personal radio services like CB) if after some reading you find it is not a good fit, you may want to talk to a local radio shop about a business license (and radios) .

Hope this helps

Thanks for the reply and the link! I have managed to get a general grasp of what applications each radio ... are GMRS/MURS/FRS categories? Classifications? Well anyways I understand the science and practical implications of each kind from a technical perspective. On paper, I'd have no problem.

I'm struggling more with getting a read on the landscape so I don't buy into a deprecated technology. I don't know what kind of pace the radio industry moves at.

Why that is really frustrating me is for every person that says go with MURS (In the thread I started asking for advice on real radios I mention I'm looking at Moto's MURS offering) I hear an equal amount saying MURS is going to be a crowded mess because GMRS is now functionally unregulated and everyone will flee to MURS like they did to FRS/GMRS after CB went to hell. The radio dealer I called said a 900mhz DLR setup would be my best bet since MURS can't offer reliably open channels.

I wouldn't mind getting a business license but I was under the impression those were assigned to a site, not a person. I'd need to be able to use comms on the road.

I hope my post in the new-people forum asking about the 900mhz Motorola HT's gets a reply, because if those are great then this whole headache is over.

 

[wyShack]

OK at the risk of going off topic- let's start with What are you trying to 'do' with the radio (or radio system)? Area of operation range between stations mobile handheld? While technology does change, some things are feasible and some are not. For the most part regulation lags technology, and both are limited by natural laws. An Iphone is basically a computer controlled short range radio -it is the cell phone 'network' that does most of the heavy lifting. Let us know what you are trying to do and we can be more helpful -or let you know if we think it 'can be done' at all.

 

[Jasphetamine]

Okay I think my iPhone comment caused some confusion. That was meant to be sardonic; irony that at the pinnacle of humanity's ability to disseminate information on a mass scale short range half duplex would still be complex. It was a remark aimed at the vast schism between two-way technology and post-Nextel cellphones.

I apologize for the confusion and appreciate you coming back to help out.

I posted a thread explaining the objective for new radios which I'll link here assuming it won't count as cross posting.

http://forums.radioreference.com/ne...rding-900mhz-dmr-motorolas-radio-designs.html

- Jas

 

[chief21]

I wouldn't mind getting a business license but I was under the impression those were assigned to a site, not a person. I'd need to be able to use comms on the road.

I hope my post in the new-people forum asking about the 900mhz Motorola HT's gets a reply, because if those are great then this whole headache is over.

You've been a little short on specifics, but it sounds like you might be better off with a business license. You could apply for an itinerant license that would allow you to use a certain number of frequencies anywhere in the US. You could also use more modern, digital-capable radios (i.e. DMR, MotoTurbo, NXDN, etc) which would address your deprecation concerns. I would suggest that you contact a professional dealer to assist with the business licensing process, as it can be daunting.

As to 900 MHz, I believe that most of this equipment operates in the unlicensed scientific equipment band and is relatively short-range. As a previous poster suggested, if you could be more specific as to your needs, we might be able to offer better suggestions.

John

 

[Jasphetamine]

You've been a little short on specifics, but it sounds like you might be better off with a business license. You could apply for an itinerant license that would allow you to use a certain number of frequencies anywhere in the US. You could also use more modern, digital-capable radios (i.e. DMR, MotoTurbo, NXDN, etc) which would address your deprecation concerns. I would suggest that you contact a professional dealer to assist with the business licensing process, as it can be daunting.

As to 900 MHz, I believe that most of this equipment operates in the unlicensed scientific equipment band and is relatively short-range. As a previous poster suggested, if you could be more specific as to your needs, we might be able to offer better suggestions.

John

I should delete the other thread so I'm not cross posting, but here are specifics:

Default
1) Milspec durability and water resistance.
2) Range of about a kilometer non-LOS in urban setting from mixed indoor/outdoor locations.
3) Usable in areas with crowded airwaves. Very crowded.
4) Ability to minimize third parties listening in. No need for encryption level privacy though. Essentially when somethings gone wrong you don't tell people who don't need to know. Part of "The show must go on" best practices.
5) Usable at arbitrary number of locations without multiple licenses.
6) 100% FCC compliance.
7) Minimal interface -- sometimes you give a HT to untrained people you can only trust with volume, channel, and PTT.
8) USD200 per HT target budget.
9) Repeater capable would be nice, but not immediate concern. Would be nice from a new-hobby standpoint.
10) User programming if it isn't MURS.

Right now the Moto RMM2040 MURS or DLR1060 seem like they fit the bill, but I would appreciate advice.

Thanks,
- Jas

 

[bill4long]

I wouldn't mind getting a business license but I was under the impression those were assigned to a site, not a person.

They are assigned to commercial entities, i.e, businesses. (Non-profits, like churches, are likewise considered businesses for that purpose.) What they do not assign those frequencies to is "personal use." You can't get a license for your family to yack around the house, or on vacation. For that, you have GMRS (family licensed) or MURS (unlicensed) or CB (unlicensed) or ham radio (individual licensed.)

BTW, GMRS stations are allowed to communicate with each other. You can use GMRS for business. It's just that, legally, a license would be required for each "family" involved, which is $65/family/per-five-years.

FRS is the best way to go if the radios work well enough, then MURS. But GMRS allows significant RF power output, and repeaters, so it can be a good solution.

I'd need to be able to use comms on the road.

There are transient frequencies set aside for "on the road" and temporary sites. For example, a construction company that moves around from site to site would obviously need something like that. You don't need a new license every time. You just request a transient frequency for that purpose. The coordinator will give you one and a CTCSS tone appropriate for your area.

Sidebar: getting a Land Mobile (commercial/business) license only cost $200 for every two years. However, you generally need to get coordinated, and this can cost around $500 one-time.

 

[bill4long]

2) Range of about a kilometer non-LOS in urban setting from mixed indoor/outdoor locations. 3) Usable in areas with crowded airwaves. Very crowded.

This means you'll need a repeater system. Period. You might look into leasing one or more talk groups on a trunked system. You can lease the radios, and you won't need to get your own Land Mobile license. Easy schmeazy.

 

[Jasphetamine]

This means you'll need a repeater system. Period. You might look into leasing one or more talk groups on a trunked system. You can lease the radios, and you won't need to get your own Land Mobile license. Easy schmeazy.

What would be possible for 5 watt GMRS without a repeater? 90% of the time it will be LOS and under 300-500 meters. Is it the traffic that is the problem?

 

[bill4long]

What would be possible for 5 watt GMRS without a repeater? 90% of the time it will be LOS and under 300-500 meters. Is it the traffic that is the problem?

That would probably be fine. It would be fine around here, in the Indianapolis area, since around here GMRS has very little activity.

Where abouts is your location, if you don't mind?

 

[Jasphetamine]

BTW, GMRS stations are allowed to communicate with each other. You can use GMRS for business. It's just that, legally, a license would be required for each "family" involved, which is $65/family/per-five-years.

.

That'd be no issue to get, since I'd want full Tx output anyways. Are you sure a "family" counts as a business in the regulations?

 

[Jasphetamine]

That would probably be fine. It would be fine around here, in the Indianapolis area, since around here GMRS has very little activity.

Where abouts is your location, if you don't mind?

Tri-state area, often NYC.

 

[bill4long]

That'd be no issue to get, since I'd want full Tx output anyways. Are you sure a "family" counts as a business in the regulations?

"Businesses" are not licensed under GMRS, individuals are, and the license covers the individual licensee's family members as specified in the rules, and covers siblings, spouses, children, grandchildren.

The license allows personal or business communication.

The license allows repeaters.

Communications are allowed between members covered by the same license, and between members covered by different licenses.

So, for example, if you want to use GMRS for business, and you have 5 employees including yourself, and none of you are family related as defined in the rules, then each of you would have to have your own license. However, if, say, one of your employees was your son, then he would be covered under your license, and would not require his own. If everyone in the company is related as defined in the rules, then only one license is required.

The GMRS as it stands was essentially designed to allow family farms to conduct their farming operations and be covered by a single license. However, inter-license communication is absolutely allowed, personal or business.

 

[Jasphetamine]

Think of it this way, the GMRS as it stands was essential designed to allow family farms to conduct their farming operations and be covered by a single license. However, inter-license communication is absolutely allowed.

That should be in huge bold letters at the top of every GMRS FAQ ever.

Thank you, that both makes sense and is super helpful. Now this means I'm looking at MURS or the DLR1060 900mhz radios.

Edit: There doesn't seem to be a MURS or 900mhz forum. Where is appropriate to ask about them?

 

[bill4long]

That should be in huge bold letters at the top of every GMRS FAQ ever.

Thank you, that both makes sense and is super helpful. Now this means I'm looking at MURS or the DLR1060 900mhz radios.

Curious as to why GMRS is now off the table.

 

[Jasphetamine]

Curious as to why GMRS is now off the table.

These radios are going to be in used by whomever needs one on any given day, not by family.

 

[bill4long]

These radios are going to be in used by whomever needs one on any given day, not by family.

OK, I don't know your business, but it sounds like a situation where it would not be feasible for each of the radio users to get, or be covered by, a GMRS license.

Well, around here there is a lot of MURS activity. From what I can tell 1000 ft is no problem around moderate terrain. I have no idea about the performance of 900mhz radios, I never heard of them until you just mentioned them, although I would be interested in information about their performance. So if you get some, please start a thread.