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Heard DMR on an FRS channel for the first time Yesterday!

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Hatchett

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First time I have heard a digital transmission on an “FRS only” channel.

While at work, I had a scanner going. A little after noon, I had the peace and quiet of the day interrupted by the rattling of what was most likely a DMR transmission that was getting louder. Assuming it was on a business channel, I went over to lock that channel out for the time being. Much to my surprise, it was on FRS channel 10 (467.6125)!

Thinking it was probably an image frequency, I retrieved my moto talkabout. It too, heard the DMR transmission…. So I went to my car and turned on my dual band alinco and cranked it to the suspect frequency, to be greeted by the DMR rattling. It was definitely centered on 467.6125, and not an adjacent frequency that was bleeding over.

The transmissions got louder and louder over a period of a few minutes. I could tell by listening to the shifting signals that there was at least two people talking to each other and at least One of them was a bit long winded. And by the fast signal flutter, they was probably moving at highway speeds. After a few more minutes, both their signals faded out, and didn’t hear them again the rest of the day.

It may have been computer communications, but the general back and forth flow gave me the impression of two people talking as they were driving along.

Unfortunately I did not have any equipment with me to identity or decode the transmission. It would have been interesting to know if they was using encryption or not.

Was not able to get an idea of how much power they were using because I could not figure out which road they was on, or how fast they was moving.
 

jwt873

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With all the cheapie Chinese DMR radios flooding the market, I guess it's inevitable that some will try DMR simplex on FRS/GMRS. (I guess you could use a Motorola XPR 7550 or 5550 as well, but I doubt people would lay out that much money just to chat on FRS :) )

Don't know if it's legal or not in the US.
 

N4GIX

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It is definitely not legal in many ways, the most important of which is that FRS frequencies are limited to 0.5 watts and a non-detachable antenna, and secondarily that the emission mode is limited to FM...

...which digital in any format definitely is not!
 

Hatchett

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It is definitely not legal in many ways, the most important of which is that FRS frequencies are limited to 0.5 watts and a non-detachable antenna, and secondarily that the emission mode is limited to FM...

...which digital in any format definitely is not!

Yes, definitely illegal.

As of this time I am thinking there is a likelihood of it being a result of the person programming the radios making a typo, and no one catching it.

Which I have seen before.

Being DMR they can’t hear the analog FRS traffic they are running across so they are blissfully ignorant.

If I start hearing more DMR activity, then I may think something bigger is going on, until that time, I am just chocking it up to radio tech stupidity.
 

bravo14

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Where I use to live at I heard a trunking system on FRS forgot which channel. I don't think that's legal either.
 

gewecke

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Not surprised at all. As said with all these chinese toys, its just getting started. ...Now if they would just print the licensing requirements right in the radios programming MENU ! :( 73, n9zas
 

jeepsandradios

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Well I just spent 2 weeks in Charlotte at the race track. I heard DMR and P25 on both FRS and GMRS. My 462.650 was completely useless as someone was on the 467.650 on a digital format. I got three or 4 hits on my scanner that showed P25 and programmed my APX but never heard anyone else on it.

I think as other we are just starting to see all this and more is to come. Ironically before i left for vacation I had a friend stop by with a new to him ebay XTS portable. CH1-16 were FRS NAC 293. At least he was smart enough to know this was wrong and asked I reprogram to ham stuff.
 
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DaveNF2G

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It is definitely not legal in many ways, the most important of which is that FRS frequencies are limited to 0.5 watts and a non-detachable antenna, and secondarily that the emission mode is limited to FM...

...which digital in any format definitely is not!

DMR is in fact transmitted using FM. The proper inquiry is whether or not this type of encoding of the voice signal is permitted in FRS.
 

RayAir

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I'm pretty sure crapola voice inversion isn't allowed either but I've heard it on FRS and GMRS before. Coming across DMR on FRS shouldn't really be a surprise with all the cheap DMR radios that flooded the market.
 

gewecke

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I'm pretty sure crapola voice inversion isn't allowed either but I've heard it on FRS and GMRS before. Coming across DMR on FRS shouldn't really be a surprise with all the cheap DMR radios that flooded the market.
Strangely enough, the Fcc actually type accepted some models of repeater capable Gmrs/frs talkies with switchable inversion scrambling. Marketed by motorola no less. Then they quietly disappeared. I still have one. :). 73, n9zas
 

RayAir

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Strangely enough, the Fcc actually type accepted some models of repeater capable Gmrs/frs talkies with switchable inversion scrambling. Marketed by motorola no less. Then they quietly disappeared. I still have one. :). 73, n9zas

Kenwood had inversion scramble on their 14ch UBZLF14.
I remember buying a set in 2000.

On topic, there's so many MD-380's out there in the hands of amateurs and other radio saavy users it wouldn't surprise me to start finding them on FRS/GMRS.
 

gewecke

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Kenwood had inversion scramble on their 14ch UBZLF14.
I remember buying a set in 2000.

On topic, there's so many MD-380's out there in the hands of amateurs and other radio saavy users it wouldn't surprise me to start finding them on FRS/GMRS.
yep, the DOD actually passed out several hundred of those little kenwoods, but with a slightly different frequency range for troop comms. I plan on getting a Dm390 in the future, but then again I'm licensed for it. Those radios come with a responsibility to use them correctly. Unfortunately too many people think they're the same toy as a frs radio, and that's where much of this malicious interference comes from. :( 73, n9zas
 

Hans13

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Unfortunately too many people think they're the same toy as a frs radio, and that's where much of this malicious interference comes from.

Malicious might be the wrong word. Pehaps unintentional, born of pure ignorance or willful ignorance, would be more accurate in most cases?
 
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DaveNF2G

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Malicious might be the wrong word. Pehaps unintentional, born of pure ignorance or willful ignorance, would be more accurate in most cases?

That's pretty much the regulatory definition of malicious.
 

902

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yep, the DOD actually passed out several hundred of those little kenwoods, but with a slightly different frequency range for troop comms. I plan on getting a Dm390 in the future, but then again I'm licensed for it. Those radios come with a responsibility to use them correctly. Unfortunately too many people think they're the same toy as a frs radio, and that's where much of this malicious interference comes from. :( 73, n9zas
I never heard of them passing out Kenwoods, but Icom made an "Intrasquad Radio" which they handed out about 13 years ago. It was an IC-4008M, which was just like the IC-4008A, but a different frequency range. It worked within a contained perimeter, usually shouting distance, but nowhere near what a full power radio could do.
 

Hans13

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That's pretty much the regulatory definition of malicious.

I'm not finding where that is. I took a quick look at 47 C.F.R. § 97.101(d) "No amateur operator shall willfully or maliciously interfere with or cause interference to any radio communication or signal" and 47 C.F.R. § 97.3 "Definitions." Perhaps I missed the definition somewhere but that still appears to fit willful interference more than malicious.
 

gewecke

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I never heard of them passing out Kenwoods, but Icom made an "Intrasquad Radio" which they handed out about 13 years ago. It was an IC-4008M, which was just like the IC-4008A, but a different frequency range. It worked within a contained perimeter, usually shouting distance, but nowhere near what a full power radio could do.
. No, both the kenwoods and icoms were useless in the field and soon discontinued due to lack of range. 73, n9zas
 

902

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. No, both the kenwoods and icoms were useless in the field and soon discontinued due to lack of range. 73, n9zas
Never knew about the Kenwoods. You could also snap off the antenna from the Icoms pretty easily. They were just fold-over. I don't know how something like that could have been pushed out to the field in good conscience.
 
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