Another FRS/GMRS Question:

[iamjimmy86]

I've been hearing sporadically on FRS/GMRS channel 16 and every now and then I hear a school bus dispatch coming over the air. Now I realize in Canada it's perfectly legal to use this radio service for a business but it seems rather odd to me. Especially when they are giving out parents & children's names over the air and anyone with a cheap store-bought Walkie-Talkie can listen and essentially keeps tabs on them.

Now it may just be me, but I find it odd. Obviously I can tell they aren't using handhelds as the street names I'm hearing are quite far away, multiple towns over. Which means they must be using mobile radios for simplex operation, which is a big no-no here in Canada, even though I'm sure many people are doing it anyway.

Just verbalizing some thoughts here is all.

 

[mmckenna]

Good observations, and we see the exact same issues down here in the states.

Many users are blissfully unaware that it's ridiculously easy to listen in on these radios. Even more expensive commercial radios are easy enough to listen in on. Schools are usually oblivious to the fact that when they share personal information over the air, it's easy for anyone and everyone to listen in. A bit of training would address this.
The radio manufacturers also do the consumer a huge disservice by using terms like "Privacy Codes" to describe CTCSS or DCS squelch codes. Some users are under the impression that they actually provide some sort of privacy.

Not sure what the rules are in Canada, but they may not be operating illegally if they are, in fact, using higher power radios.
Here in the USA, commercial/business users can use GMRS channels legally. Up until the 90's or so, commercial users could get licenses for their businesses on GMRS. There are several around me that still use these channels for their business. As long as they keep the license up to date, they are "grandfathered" in under the rules.
Not sure if Canada did the same thing. It took a while for GMRS to be rolled out up there because these frequencies were in use by other services. Could be that (maybe) the school you are hearing was/is still legally licensed on that frequency.

Then again, there are some radio shops that see no issue with knowingly programming higher power radios on FRS and/or GMRS against the rules and without proper licensing. Some radio dealers just see a quick sale. Many radio shops have done this in the USA, including a few large nationwide dealers. They would view GMRS as a "dumping" ground for users that didn't/couldn't qualify for licenses, or they'd just never bother with the details.

 

[iamjimmy86]

In Canada, as per Industry Canada which governs all Radiotelecommunications: "FRS is 0.5watts with non-detachable antennas & GMRS is 2watts with a non-detachable antenna and are license-exempt with no provisions for repeater offsets." Though Industry Canada has set aside 467.550mHz - 467.725mHz spaced 25kHz apart for future inclusion of repeater use should the need be required at such time.

Now I realized not everyone follows these guidelines whether it be Canada or the U.S., but it just struck me off that they would operate on that frequency without thinking. It is possible that they purchased radios that were set up already on that channel or it's possible THEY had the radios programmed to that channel to get around having to purchase a business band license.

Obviously I wouldn't divulge information I heard over-the-air nor would I key-up and interfere with them, but it just doesn't seem smart as there could be fines involved should they be discovered.

As for your other statement, far as I know and have read there is no "grand-fathering" for that service up here as the FRS/GMRS didn't legally become available until 2002 in Canada? I may be wrong on that but it's somewhere around that time frame.

 

[mmckenna]

As for your other statement, far as I know and have read there is no "grand-fathering" for that service up here as the FRS/GMRS didn't legally become available until 2002 in Canada? I may be wrong on that but it's somewhere around that time frame.

Correct, but before that time, those frequencies were in use by licensed users. Could be they were allowed to keep their licenses.

Or,

The obvious "bought a bunch of cheap radios off a Amazon" and programmed them up for "whatever".

 

[iamjimmy86]

Correct, but before that time, those frequencies were in use by licensed users. Could be they were allowed to keep their licenses.

Or,

The obvious "bought a bunch of cheap radios off a Amazon" and programmed them up for "whatever".

That is a possibility but as far as I know previously held licenses would have had to move to different frequencies. Kind of like how last year Canada rejected the plan to introduce MURS after a 5-year review they said there wasn't enough interest at this time to introduce it. Mostly because a lot of rural FD's still use those frequencies and didn't want to migrate to different frequencies or a different band.

It's more likely that they just bought radios and had them set up as its only been the last few months I've heard them operating on that particular channel.

 

[bert-rob]

No industry canada didnt force anyone who were operating on gmrs frequencies before gmrs cam to canada to vacate them they mearly recomended to the business owners to switch to a non gmrs frequency the licenced bussiness owners can still operate on those frequencies the same as they grandfathered them in the us

 

[robertmac]

The last time I look, there were few if any licences users of FRS frequencies. One can search (if the site is up) Spectrum Direct to determine if licenses have been issued for FRS in Canada.

 

[bert-rob]

Channel 16 is not a free channel though it's gmrs frequency

 

[bert-rob]

also there are a few radios that operate on gmrs frequencies that can have the removable antenna re the cobra hh450 dual band marine/gmrs portable radio

 

[iamjimmy86]

Channel 16 is not a free channel though it's gmrs frequency

In Canada both the FRS and GMRS/FRS shared channels are license exempt, ergo free to use. But both can not have a removable antenna as stated in RSS-210 (License Except Radio Services) on their website.

 

[bert-rob]

I put frs but spell check changed it to free and as I noted there are a hand full of radios that are imported into Canada that do have removable antenna like the marine/gmrs combo dual band radios

 

[iamjimmy86]

A lot of different radios are imported yes, but that doesn't make them legal. It's legal to sell just about anything but it's up to the user to understand what they have and how to use it. Also that particular radio could only be used by a select market. I could see it being a seller to people who see "6 watt radio" and assume it's just a higher-power Walkie-Talkie so they can use it wherever they want, but once they go and use the VHF channels they would be opening themselves to a bit of trouble should they get caught.

 

[bert-rob]

It's also a gmrs radio as well also in my research in noticed one other dual band marine radio that also has frs programed in it don't know how that one got by fcc Maby they both got the same exemption in both Canada and us somehow that one was kinda strange

 

[iamjimmy86]

If that one is legal in Canada for Marine VHF use it wouldn't be legal for FRS/GMRS because of the removable antenna.

 

[iamjimmy86]

So I think I have figured out what that GMRS channel I was picking up was, after digging a little deeper I'm positive it was this company: "462.57500 - 156.7 PL - BOCES buses (GMRS)" out of Rochester, NY. I never thought I'd be able to pick up frequencies across the lake like that. Guess my knowledge of propagation isn't as good as I thought it was. I've also picked up quite a few other freq's out of Monroe County, which makes sense as Rochester is south west of my location. I'll try and load a map screenshot of the distance.

 

[iamjimmy86]

It's closer than I thought it was.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

hmmm I wonder if the BOCES Bus company is operating illegally on that frequency?

 

[Thunderknight]

hmmm I wonder if the BOCES Bus company is operating illegally on that frequency?

I just checked the FCC DB and there are no grandfathered licenses on that frequency in Monroe County.

 

[iamjimmy86]

Weird. Oh well at least I know who I think it is now anyway. Still amazes me what I can pick up and from how far away.

 

[prcguy]

I was near Quebec last year doing some work with others from the US and they brought their GMRS radios to Canada to keep in touch within close range. As a coincidence, the Canadian company we were working with was licensed and using the same GMRS frequency and tone we use locally in the US. Apparently the Canadian company had the license for quite some time and they use the radios all day long.
prcguy

No industry canada didnt force anyone who were operating on gmrs frequencies before gmrs cam to canada to vacate them they mearly recomended to the business owners to switch to a non gmrs frequency the licenced bussiness owners can still operate on those frequencies the same as they grandfathered them in the us