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FRS/GMRS for mobile use

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nkemp

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I've been looking into this for a while and I'm posting in case I missed something.

What I want: Something like the Radio Shack 21-1850 radio in a FRS/GMRS. Is there anything?

I want an external antenna and would prefer the controls in the mic/speaker. This is for a collector car so installation needs to be more stealth than the daily driver. I want to use when the group goes on trips. Since one never knows who will be bringing what radio, dual FRS and GMRS would be desireable.

Seems like most radios are bubble pack FRS/GMRS. Since FRS rules do not allow detachable antennas, it doesn't appear that there are any units with detachable antennas. The Midland MXT100 MicroMobile is GMRS only. Because it has a detachable antenna.it cannot do FRS.

A bubble pack radio would sorta work if it had a detachable antenna. I looked into type certified radios but they don't appear to have the privacy codes.

It seems to me that the FCC rules around this are a bit of a mess. And FRS/GMRS could be sooooo much more usable.
 

KC2GIU

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I've been looking into this for a while and I'm posting in case I missed something.

What I want: Something like the Radio Shack 21-1850 radio in a FRS/GMRS. Is there anything?

I want an external antenna and would prefer the controls in the mic/speaker. This is for a collector car so installation needs to be more stealth than the daily driver. I want to use when the group goes on trips. Since one never knows who will be bringing what radio, dual FRS and GMRS would be desireable.

Seems like most radios are bubble pack FRS/GMRS. Since FRS rules do not allow detachable antennas, it doesn't appear that there are any units with detachable antennas. The Midland MXT100 MicroMobile is GMRS only. Because it has a detachable antenna.it cannot do FRS.

A bubble pack radio would sorta work if it had a detachable antenna. I looked into type certified radios but they don't appear to have the privacy codes.

It seems to me that the FCC rules around this are a bit of a mess. And FRS/GMRS could be sooooo much more usable.

Oddly, if you do a web search, there are many DIY hacks to GMRS/FRS radios using detachable antennas. Some are indeed hacks and others look professionally done with little effort. There is a company that makes a stealth antenna called the antenna shark. It looks just like a regular antenna shark found on most imports and some domestic vehicles. They have a few that works in GMRS/FRS freqs too. Thus, being mobile swapping to that antenna would look normal on the highway.
 

KC2GIU

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In the past, I used CB for road trips. But today, CBs are found at truck stops and not at Walmart. So, a pair of GMRS/FRS Midlands are cheap to travel with. I did this once on a road trip from NY to NC. The downside is, GMRS/FRS are weak if the vehicles get tooooo far apart. CB will keep you connected further away.
 

gewecke

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I think the Tera Tr505 Gmrs radio has a removable antenna. Its on the Powerwerx website, maybe that would suit your needs. 73, n9zas
 

tj20

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Never mind I need to pay attention
 
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nkemp

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Sounds like there is not a good solution on the market for what I want. You can get:
- FRS, fixed antenna
- FRS/GMRS, Fixed antenna
- GMRS, fixed or detachable antenna

Since at any gathering, there may be a mix of the three options, the FRS/GMRS are the best bet for getting out to all. For that, you give up the capability of an exterior mount antenna (and all its benefits) unless you want to hack a radio.

Hacking the radio for an external antenna is doable, illegal, but doable. I suspect that it would never be an issue in and by itself. But I can get into enough trouble without poking the beehive.

Motorola TALKABOUT MU350R comes closer since it has Bluetooth capability. It has a fixed antenna. One could put the radio outside the vehicle :) Trouble is that you still need to press the PTT button. They sell a Bluetooth PTT button that cost about as much as the two radios.

I think we need to comment to the FCC pushing for detachable FRS antennas. There could be limits like it cannot be an antenna different than what is on the radio , just that it can be detachable and remote mount. That opens mfrs up to more options for FRS/GMRS combo units.

Given today's laws, my request to any mfr reading this is:
- An externally mountable FRS/GMRS radio
- handheld mic with full controls built in (bluetooth or wired)
- Fixed FRS antenna and a separate detachable GMRS antenna
- Radio programmed to select FRS antenna for FRS channels and GMRS antenna for GMRS channels.
- Automotive power input with optional battery pack for portable operation (like some Ham radios)
 

nkemp

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FRS and GMRS channels overlap... FRS/GMRS combined channel chart - The RadioReference Wiki

If you did pick up a GMRS only radio, couldn't you agree before hand to use one of the overlapping channels? That way it wouldn't matter whether you were using FRS or GMRS. I bet if the bubble pack FRS users saw the capability of the GMRS radio, they might switch :)

Trouble here is that these are handheld only and do not have detachable antennas. I really would like an external antenna. This allows vehicles greater separation, greater safety and still get a readable signal.
 

KC2GIU

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Trouble here is that these are handheld only and do not have detachable antennas. I really would like an external antenna. This allows vehicles greater separation, greater safety and still get a readable signal.

Well, FRS handheld in a vehicle is greatly limited due to the vehicles metal enclosure around the signal trying to get out. I had posted earlier of a trip from NY to NC using such a method. We had a good pair of FRS Midlands and the third vehicle had a Motorola FRS/GMRS. The FRS radios only could run on their own batteries, not the vehicle power. The Motorola has a power jack. Needless to say, after a few hours, nobody could hear anything.

Upon our second trip of NY to FL, we did two hand held Cobra CB's HH-33 with detachable antennas and used mag mounts atop the vehicles. These used the vehicle power jack, never failed either. Due to the dreaded skip, we had the squelch turned up 1/2-way. Ch-33 was clean and helped even beyond the 5-mile rated limit of coverage too.

Oh, I'm not trying to push the old CB stuff. Just that the free service works really good. If only FRS and GMRS/FRS were more robust to use an external mounted antenna, then people would embrace using this service more frequently going mobile.
 

gewecke

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I've been looking into this for a while and I'm posting in case I missed something.

What I want: Something like the Radio Shack 21-1850 radio in a FRS/GMRS. Is there anything?

I want an external antenna and would prefer the controls in the mic/speaker. This is for a collector car so installation needs to be more stealth than the daily driver. I want to use when the group goes on trips. Since one never knows who will be bringing what radio, dual FRS and GMRS would be desireable.

Seems like most radios are bubble pack FRS/GMRS. Since FRS rules do not allow detachable antennas, it doesn't appear that there are any units with detachable antennas. The Midland MXT100 MicroMobile is GMRS only. Because it has a detachable antenna.it cannot do FRS.

A bubble pack radio would sorta work if it had a detachable antenna. I looked into type certified radios but they don't appear to have the privacy codes.

It seems to me that the FCC rules around this are a bit of a mess. And FRS/GMRS could be sooooo much more usable.
* Deleted* 73, n9zas
 
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mmckenna

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If you want to stay 100% legal, then you really only have one reasonable option. Get your GMRS license, get an appropriate radio, and get the people you are driving with to either get their own GMRS license or stick to FRS channels 1-7.

FRS channels 1-7 are compatible with the 7 interstitial GMRS channels. It is perfectly legal to communicate between a GMRS licensee and an FRS radio user.

FCC isn't likely going to change the rules for FRS because the rules were chosen to do exactly what you are experiencing. FRS has always been intended to be a short range radio service. Other radio services exist that provide more range. FRS was designed to be short range so that the limited number of channels could easily be reused in congested areas. Adding external antennas, no matter what the reason, would nullify the original design. While some would be honest, there are those that would install amplifiers or high gain external antennas. FCC knows this and I doubt they are going to change, especially when there is the GMRS option so readily available.

GMRS license are not difficult to get. Some get annoyed at the cost, but if you take the cost of the license and spread it out over 5 years, it's pennies a day for reliable communications.

Install a magnetic mount antenna or install a permanent mount low profile antenna and you'll be good to go.
A basic UHF radio programmed up with the right frequencies will outperform ANY consumer grade crap you buy at the store.

With an external antenna not only will your transmit range be improved, but your ability to hear the low power FRS/GMRS consumer radios will be drastically improved.

As for low profile, install the radio under the seat or some other hidden location. Use an external speaker to get the sound out where you can hear it. Extend the microphone to a convenient location. If you coordinate everything ahead of time, you won't need to change channels, so the radio out of the way won't be an issue.

I understand the desire to not crap up a classic car with radio gear, but done right it can work. I know a guy that has a pristine early 70's F250 pickup. He's a radio guy, so he wanted his UHF radio in it. He has a fairly modern Motorola MCS2000 remote mounted under the seat. He rigged up an old Motorola control head and microphone from the early 70's to match the vintage of the truck. The old control head is used for volume and the microphone. A period correct UHF antenna on the roof rounds it out. Unless you know exactly what to look for, you would just assume it was the original two way radio that was installed in the truck when it was new.
 

nkemp

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KC2GIU & mmckenna I agree and no argument intended. KC2GIU described the real world situation well. Recently we went to a car show and with only three cars in our group we had to stay pretty close while using FRS. If the last guy had a problem and pulled over he would have been out of range before he could push the PTT (luckily the first guy was the one with a problem)

GMRS seems to be a GREAT idea. The bummer is that dual FRS/GMRS units get dragged down (rules wise) by the FCC FRS requirement that the antenna must not be modified and must be attached. From my perspective, a far superior product (applicability and usability wise) would be a dual FRS/GMRS that could use a remote antenna (GRMS only at a minimum and preferably both FRS and GMRS).

Imagine the applicability and usability improvement if the Midland MXT100 MicroMobile had FRS capability or if a FRS/GMRS handheld could use an external antenna (at least for GMRS transmissions). It opens up communication with those without a GMRS license who use FRS. But I'm being wishful ...wishful that a mfr will pick up on the opportunity or that the FCC will mod the rules a tiny bit.

The Boy Scouts have a rule against caravanning so that an accident doesn't take out more than one vehicle. A good rule. Using FRS to keep in touch forces the vehicles to stay closer together increasing the risk of more than one vehicle in the group/family having an accident together. A large car or motorcycle group can have many vehicles and can stretch out over quite a distance.

I guess that the question is whether to stay legal or go for the performance. I suspect in the real world, many go for the performance and take the chance the few times per year that they do so.
 

SteveC0625

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I have two 4 watt GMRS portables plus a 25 watt mobile in my truck. All are commercial grade radios. The wife and I caravan quite a bit and we can talk up to a couple of miles apart, depending on terrain. Yeah, the terrain here in the Adirondacks is not conducive to unit to unit communications. I'm adding a mag mount external antenna to her portable for the next trip and we'll see how that works for us. I'll try a 1/4 wave to start and then consider upgrading to gain antennas.

Our village is very flat so portable to portable works pretty well around town.
 

wa1nic

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Keep in mind that FRS and GMRS are not completely compatible, in spite of the fact that the channels overlap.

FRS is NFM and GMRS is WFM. If you try to work with both types of systems, you will experience low audio, distorted audio, and CTCSS not working reliably.
 

SteveC0625

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Keep in mind that FRS and GMRS are not completely compatible, in spite of the fact that the channels overlap.

FRS is NFM and GMRS is WFM. If you try to work with both types of systems, you will experience low audio, distorted audio, and CTCSS not working reliably.
I am pretty sure the 7 interstitial frequencies are NFM for both GMRS and FRS.
 

nkemp

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about MURS transceivers.

MURS seems to be a better technical solution but they are not as ubiquitous as FRS/GMRS. Ask a group to bring 2-way radios and you'll not likely find MURS radios even though they are better. Seems that a lot of folks have FRS/GMRS.

As a side note ... it would be interesting to see how many GMRS units have been sold versus GRMS licenses issued. I wouldn't be surprised if it exceeded 1,000 to 1. Pretty big families :)
 

mmckenna

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Keep in mind that FRS and GMRS are not completely compatible, in spite of the fact that the channels overlap.

FRS is NFM and GMRS is WFM. If you try to work with both types of systems, you will experience low audio, distorted audio, and CTCSS not working reliably.

There is absolutely nothing stopping someone from programming a commercial Part 95 accepted radio for narrow band FM for use on the 7 interstitial frequencies.

Most of the consumer FRS/GMRS radios run narrow on the 7 interstitials anyway.
 

mmckenna

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Imagine the applicability and usability improvement if the Midland MXT100 MicroMobile had FRS capability or if a FRS/GMRS handheld could use an external antenna (at least for GMRS transmissions). It opens up communication with those without a GMRS license who use FRS. But I'm being wishful ...wishful that a mfr will pick up on the opportunity or that the FCC will mod the rules a tiny bit.

Again, the 7 GMRS interstitial channels are shared with FRS, so you already have the capability to do this. You just have to purchase the proper radio. You are not going to find suitable radios at Wal*Mart, Radio Shack, etc. You need to be looking at commercial LMR radios that have FCC Part 95 certification. Many Kenwood and Icom radios do. That'll let you run up to 5 watts under your GMRS license on one of these 7 shared interstitial channels and talk directly to FRS radios. All perfectly legal.
 

nkemp

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I've looked into programming a LMR and get a headache trying to find the right radio. Too much noise in the Google results. Does anyone know of a good list of part 95 radios.

There is also the part 95 interpretation that UHF radios with part 90 certification can be used. That said this is not perfectly clear but it appears that there have not been any FCC communications against it nor have there been any violations due to using part 90. YMMV.

Again, I have not found a good resource for part 90 radios. I think those who live this have it in their heads and those who have ADD and dabble in a lot of topics have to search it out.
 
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