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GMRS / FRS - Discussions related to GMRS (General Mobile Radio Service) and FRS (Family Radio Service) communications

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Old 03-08-2017, 9:04 PM
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Lightbulb Gmrs over Roip

Just wondering if this is possible to have your gmrs radio linked up to a gateway at one end and another gmrs radio connected to another gateway thats about several miles away. I know I could put up a gmrs repeater to possible cover that range but doing via roip would be cheaper.

Is it possible and legal and has anyone tried it?
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Old 03-08-2017, 9:36 PM
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Grey area here.

I think Two rFCC Rules apply here:

47 CFR 95.141 does not allow you to "interconnect" a GMRS radio to the PSTN.
using a commercial phone line for the link is not allowed.
This does NOT prohibit other link technology.

However:

47CFR 95.183 (12) more directly prohibits:
"(12) Messages which are both conveyed by a wireline control link and transmitted by a GMRS station;"
ROIP uses a wireline link (the internet) to effect the connection between transmitters.

Although you might be able to argue that the internet is not a "wireline link" as defined in part 68.

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Old 03-08-2017, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KB0VWG View Post
Just wondering if this is possible to have your gmrs radio linked up to a gateway at one end and another gmrs radio connected to another gateway thats about several miles away. I know I could put up a gmrs repeater to possible cover that range but doing via roip would be cheaper.

Is it possible and legal and has anyone tried it?
Thanks
kb0vwg
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It is legal. You can do it with a raspberry pi.
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Old 03-08-2017, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ai8o View Post
Grey area here.

I think Two rFCC Rules apply here:

47 CFR 95.141 does not allow you to "interconnect" a GMRS radio to the PSTN.
using a commercial phone line for the link is not allowed.
This does NOT prohibit other link technology.

However:

47CFR 95.183 (12) more directly prohibits:
"(12) Messages which are both conveyed by a wireline control link and transmitted by a GMRS station;"
ROIP uses a wireline link (the internet) to effect the connection between transmitters.

Although you might be able to argue that the internet is not a "wireline link" as defined in part 68.

Dan
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The PSTN no longer exists, the FCC acknowledges the demise of the PSTN, and the reasons for restricting interconnection was to protect AT&T from toll call avoidance. Does anyone know or remember what a toll call was?

The other wireline rule appears defective in its construct. If taken to mean that voice and control signals cannot share a wireline, then voted repeaters would be illegal. They are apparently not because there are systems with voted receivers.

It would help to have some history on this as well. Logically it could also be a protection for toll calls.

There is a thread some months back quoting a Field Office engineer as stating there are no GMRS rules restricting linking via interconnect.

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Old 03-09-2017, 10:05 AM
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In a previous job, we used a Telex system with IP-223 interface boxes to connect radios via RoIP. GMRS came up a few times, and it was just a matter of programming and staying legal.

Technology wise, this is easy to do with many different RoIP methods and hardware. Remote control of radio has been done for many years now. If you have Cisco network gear it may be possible to connect many newer radios. For older ones you may need a tone remote box.

Though not true IP based, just analog and remote control of radios, I used an older Zetron 4010 console bought at an auction site to key up radios at a distance. Depends on what you want to do.
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Old 03-09-2017, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RFI-EMI-GUY View Post
The PSTN no longer exists, the FCC acknowledges the demise of the PSTN, and the reasons for restricting interconnection was to protect AT&T from toll call avoidance. Does anyone know or remember what a toll call was?

The other wireline rule appears defective in its construct. If taken to mean that voice and control signals cannot share a wireline, then voted repeaters would be illegal. They are apparently not because there are systems with voted receivers.

It would help to have some history on this as well. Logically it could also be a protection for toll calls.

There is a thread some months back quoting a Field Office engineer as stating there are no GMRS rules restricting linking via interconnect.

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Correction to last sentence , should be Internet not interconnect. Damn you auto correct.

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Old 03-09-2017, 11:03 AM
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I was chatting with some guys about this similar topic the other day.
I saw on mygmrs that someone in Texas was going to set up a network of linked repeaters and was going to charge membership and make the network private.
While im not the GMRS police i would hate to see a large network set up, be linked, private and charge membership if the rules prohibit it.
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Old 03-09-2017, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by IAmSixNine View Post
I was chatting with some guys about this similar topic the other day.
I saw on mygmrs that someone in Texas was going to set up a network of linked repeaters and was going to charge membership and make the network private.
While im not the GMRS police i would hate to see a large network set up, be linked, private and charge membership if the rules prohibit it.
Um, that person apparently is living in a fantasy bubble of his own creation. Anyone can create fantasy sites at myGMRS.com and generate false impressions. This person has yet to provide proof of having even one functional repeater, much less the 30+ he's listed as future sites.

He made the claim about a week ago of having over 150 repeaters ready to install. Even if they were used repeaters, and one assumes a conservative $1000 per site expense (totally unrealistic!), that's a whopping $150,000 investment.

Completely aside from the total illegality of such an enterprise to begin with...

EDIT: Apparently Rich (owner of myGMRS.com) has deleted all of these fantasy repeaters from the database.

See: http://www.usgmrsgroup.club/ for a rant from the poser...
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Old 03-09-2017, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmSixNine View Post
I was chatting with some guys about this similar topic the other day.
I saw on mygmrs that someone in Texas was going to set up a network of linked repeaters and was going to charge membership and make the network private.
While im not the GMRS police i would hate to see a large network set up, be linked, private and charge membership if the rules prohibit it.
Do you know what part of Texas they were going to set that system up .......
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Old 03-09-2017, 11:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KB0VWG View Post
Just wondering if this is possible to have your gmrs radio linked up to a gateway at one end and another gmrs radio connected to another gateway thats about several miles away. I know I could put up a gmrs repeater to possible cover that range but doing via roip would be cheaper.

Is it possible and legal and has anyone tried it?
Thanks
kb0vwg
wqyy385
Mike are you talking about something like Echolink or irlp,but using gmrs/frs radios.....
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Old 03-09-2017, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by kb5zcs View Post
Do you know what part of Texas they were going to set that system up .......
Apparently Rich has deleted all of those fantasy repeaters from myGMRS.com already, as none exist in the database any longer...
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Old 03-09-2017, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by N4GIX View Post
Apparently Rich has deleted all of those fantasy repeaters from myGMRS.com already, as none exist in the database any longer...
Yeah,i know i took a look at it,thanks for the heads up info seem kind of far fetch,thats why i was ask where in Texas Lol........
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Old 03-09-2017, 1:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kb5zcs View Post
Mike are you talking about something like Echolink or irlp,but using gmrs/frs radios.....
Yes I am i will be moving to Port Mansfield because I am purchasing a business and would like to have a station there and another station at my parents house so we could communicate using my gmrs license. My parents are too old to study for the ham ticket and they would not want to. The 462.625 Repeater almost reaches out to the port but not totally, and I wanted to try this option and to see if it would work. There are some gateways out there on ebay and other places, I would just need to figure on how to set them up, and both of the location with have s a static ip address
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Old 03-09-2017, 1:35 PM
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I would set up a VPN between sites, and give each ROIP gateway a local IP address.
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Old 03-09-2017, 1:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N4GIX View Post
Um, that person apparently is living in a fantasy bubble of his own creation. Anyone can create fantasy sites at myGMRS.com and generate false impressions. This person has yet to provide proof of having even one functional repeater, much less the 30+ he's listed as future sites.

He made the claim about a week ago of having over 150 repeaters ready to install. Even if they were used repeaters, and one assumes a conservative $1000 per site expense (totally unrealistic!), that's a whopping $150,000 investment.

Completely aside from the total illegality of such an enterprise to begin with...

EDIT: Apparently Rich (owner of myGMRS.com) has deleted all of these fantasy repeaters from the database.

See: Coming Soon for a rant from the poser...

Yeah; I wondered about that. The numbers didn't add up.

The rules don't SPECIFICALLY prevent internet linking and they DO permit cooperatives. GMRS will die unless there is demonstrated use of the technology. If you talk GMRS to most people they wave their smartphone at you. So in my opinion low repeater sites that are networked will be the future.

I would like to see the rules changed: 1) Permit DMR as a secondary standard to +/- 5 KHz FM (20K0F3). 2) Grandfathering Part 90 radios to operate on Part 95A subject to power and encryption limitations. 3) Clarification of rules to permit Internet linking. 4) Abolish type acceptance of cheap dual FRS/GMRS radios.
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Old 03-09-2017, 1:49 PM
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I would set up a VPN between sites, and give each ROIP gateway a local IP address.
I have that setup already I will be purchasing a rv park and I have managed there WIFI for years and I have a vpn setup already so that should work out. Just need to read up on some more info before purchasing the gateways. I also have a raspberry pie but I haven't used it yet either.
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Old 03-09-2017, 1:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KB0VWG View Post
Yes I am i will be moving to Port Mansfield because I am purchasing a business and would like to have a station there and another station at my parents house so we could communicate using my gmrs license. My parents are too old to study for the ham ticket and they would not want to. The 462.625 Repeater almost reaches out to the port but not totally, and I wanted to try this option and to see if it would work. There are some gateways out there on ebay and other places, I would just need to figure on how to set them up, and both of the location with have s a static ip address
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The discussion about the cheap RoIP gateways is that they don't work over the internet. Maybe with a VPN. I don't know. I would like to see a good tutorial about making it work well. Presently I am keeping tabs on the RTCM ALLSTAR developments to see if they make sense for GMRS. There needs to be two three tiers of linking: 1) bare bones two or three repeaters linked by IP , 2) More sophisticated wide area IP linking lilke ALLSTAR, 3) Eventual migration to legalized DMR with IP Site Connect type linking. Whichever technology, there should be adjustable buffering of audio so that voice is not truncated by the COR/PTT delays.

Whatever you do to make it work, please share your system design here.
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Old 03-09-2017, 2:11 PM
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We used the Remoterig RRC 1258 for remote control base and repeaters over network. remoterig.com
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Old 03-09-2017, 7:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KB0VWG View Post
I have that setup already I will be purchasing a rv park and I have managed there WIFI for years and I have a vpn setup already so that should work out. Just need to read up on some more info before purchasing the gateways. I also have a raspberry pie but I haven't used it yet either.
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When you say you cant get in to your gmrs repeater is that with a mobile and an ht radio and if so could you just set up an an simplex dump site at the rv park and put up an beam antenna and point it at the repeater,just saying.......
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Old 03-09-2017, 8:48 PM
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At probably the mid to upper range of cost, ICOM has a radio over IP gateway that I am told works well. It is multi port so you can do other radio stuff with it. They also have some WiFi IP radios, the IP100H system should that fill a business need.

VE-PG3 RoIP Gateway - Features - Icom America
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