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GMRS / FRS - Discussions related to GMRS (General Mobile Radio Service) and FRS (Family Radio Service) communications

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Old 09-05-2017, 6:35 PM
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Default Motorola Talkabout T400 Licensing Question

I've been doing some reading about GMRS/FRS licensing today and I just want some confirmation/clarification on what I've learned.

I am interested in buying the Motorola Talkabout T400 radios for use around my house/property.

https://www.motorolasolutions.com/en...tabproductinfo

1. If I set the radios on channels 8-14 (FRS channels), my understanding is that no license is required. Am I correct?

2. The user guide lists the channels 1-7 as GMRS/FRS. Would a license be required if the radio is set on those channels if just used straight out of the package?

3. My understanding is that channels 15-22 would require a license. Am I correct?

The user guide below lists the frequencies and descriptions for channels 1-22

https://www.motorolasolutions.com/co...user-guide.pdf

Thanks in advance for any information.
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Old 09-05-2017, 6:41 PM
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I'm no expert but I believe on channels 1-7 you have to set the radio in low power mode. Most of those I've seen seem to default to high power on those channels. If you have the radio in low power mode, it shouldn't require a license for 1-7


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Old 09-05-2017, 6:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rs16 View Post
1. If I set the radios on channels 8-14 (FRS channels), my understanding is that no license is required. Am I correct?
Right now this is correct. Channels 8-14 are FRS only and limited to 1/2 watt power output, 12.5 kHz bandwidth, and don't require a license.


The FCC recently changed the rules which go into effect on Sep 28, 2017. Depending on the transmit power and bandwidth used on the rest of the channels, a radio could be reclassified as FRS not require a license when used on the rest of the channels. Motorola doesn't provide the output power, bandwidth or FCC ID on the product page. Without that there is no way to tell.

For more information on this see the links to the FCC above the upper table at https://wiki.radioreference.com/inde..._channel_chart
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Old 09-05-2017, 7:10 PM
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" and don't require a license. "

LICENSED by Rule.. If you do not adhere to the Rules, you can not Operate....

So saying does not require a License is not correct.
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Old 09-05-2017, 7:17 PM
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It appears that this radio may be considered an FRS radio under the new rules coming out, because it appears the test report for the 400 series don't exceed 2 watts, based on my reading of the FCC test report. So it may be that you won't need a license for those channels shortly when the new regulation goes live. The Rules rule....
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Old 09-05-2017, 8:13 PM
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So, with or without the new rules, are we sure that Channels 8-14 do not require a license?

and Jimbiram, if I'm reading you correctly, are you saying that the entire radio may not need a license as of the end of Sept.?
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Old 09-05-2017, 8:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rs16 View Post
So, with or without the new rules, are we sure that Channels 8-14 do not require a license?

and Jimbiram, if I'm reading you correctly, are you saying that the entire radio may not need a license as of the end of Sept.?
That is correct. As of September 28, 2017, what we now think of as a FRS/GMRS handheld like the radio that the OP mentioned will be FRS legal on all 22 channels. 1-7 and 15-22 can be at high power, while 8-14 are low power only. The low power only for 8-14 is already built into all the bubble pack FRS/GRMS units out there.

FWIW, I did some searching about, and the most powerful of the FRS/GMRS bubble pack radios weigh in at 1.5 watts on the high power setting. Many of them are about 1 watt.

My advice to anyone buying these radios would be to simply not fret about the licensing. The FCC has done minimal enforcement with both FRS and GMRS up to now, and it's most unlikely that someone using a bubble pack at high power in the next 3 three weeks would come on the enforcement radar.

On the 28th, license by rule takes over, and these radios can all be considered FRS on all channels.

It's just not an issue any more.
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Old 09-05-2017, 8:58 PM
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yep...what he said...
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Old 09-05-2017, 9:05 PM
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Thanks for your expertise gentlemen.
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Old 09-05-2017, 9:20 PM
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You realize we're debating over the legality of a bubble pack radio right?

I've got a set of Motorola TLKR T50 radios - I was able to measure RF at about 200mW at the antenna, despite the manual claiming 500mW, so I wouldn't put too much stock into what they "claim" to be the RF output.
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Old 09-05-2017, 9:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exkalibur View Post
You realize we're debating over the legality of a bubble pack radio right?


Uh...no debate here...move along


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Old 09-12-2017, 9:55 AM
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Default Motorola Talkabout T400 Licensing Question

I would say just spend the $70 get a GMRS license "your whole family can use it" and you won't have to worry about it


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Old 09-12-2017, 1:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Robertc1 View Post
I would say just spend the $70 get a GMRS license "your whole family can use it" and you won't have to worry about it


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Why? Under the new rules which are effective in just two weeks, all the bubble packs and exising FRS/GMRS combination radios are fully legal at their high power settings under FRS license by rule. There's no need for the OP to obtain a license to use the handheld units that he mentioned in his opening post.

If he wants to upgrade to higher power mobiles and/or base radios some day, the GMRS license would then be appropriate and necessary.
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Old 09-15-2017, 6:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveC0625 View Post
Why? Under the new rules which are effective in just two weeks, all the bubble packs and exising FRS/GMRS combination radios are fully legal at their high power settings under FRS license by rule. There's no need for the OP to obtain a license to use the handheld units that he mentioned in his opening post.

If he wants to upgrade to higher power mobiles and/or base radios some day, the GMRS license would then be appropriate and necessary.
I am considering buying a couple of the Midland mobile radios, perhaps the 5 or 15 watt. I have already obtained an FCC license, but am unsure what the proper procedure is when transmitting my call sign, etc. Also, can someone other than family members, like close friends, use the radios that I purchase, and under my license? Your providing answers to these questions would be appreciated.

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Old 09-15-2017, 7:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimg View Post
I have already obtained an FCC license, but am unsure what the proper procedure is when transmitting my call sign, etc. Also, can someone other than family members, like close friends, use the radios that I purchase, and under my license?
https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...95_main_02.tpl
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Old 09-17-2017, 8:46 PM
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Thanks for the FCC link.
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Old 09-18-2017, 6:37 AM
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Originally Posted by SteveC0625 View Post
That is correct. As of September 28, 2017, what we now think of as a FRS/GMRS handheld like the radio that the OP mentioned will be FRS legal on all 22 channels. 1-7 and 15-22 can be at high power, while 8-14 are low power only. The low power only for 8-14 is already built into all the bubble pack FRS/GRMS units out there.

FWIW, I did some searching about, and the most powerful of the FRS/GMRS bubble pack radios weigh in at 1.5 watts on the high power setting. Many of them are about 1 watt.

My advice to anyone buying these radios would be to simply not fret about the licensing. The FCC has done minimal enforcement with both FRS and GMRS up to now, and it's most unlikely that someone using a bubble pack at high power in the next 3 three weeks would come on the enforcement radar.

On the 28th, license by rule takes over, and these radios can all be considered FRS on all channels.

It's just not an issue any more.
An idea if Motorola, Midland, Cobra, etc. will be coming out with new GMRS/FRS radios with 2 watts?
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Old 09-18-2017, 6:45 AM
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An idea if Motorola, Midland, Cobra, etc. will be coming out with new GMRS/FRS radios with 2 watts?


[My expectation is that we won't see any new radios right away. There's a time lag to these things. They need to modify their designs, tool up the factories, and procure parts before they can build them. They also need to go through the FCC Type Acceptance procedure. Then they need to build then, ship them, and get them into stores for retail sales and warehouses for internet sales.

My best guess is that we might see something in time for Christmas, probably repackaged existing FRS/GMRS radios with new advertising claims, etc. as FRS only. Somebody might surprise us with new products by then, but I think we'd see those in the spring of 2018.

I don't think we'll see a ground swell of 5 watt GMRS portables in the stores for quite a while.
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Old 09-18-2017, 8:08 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveC0625 View Post
[My expectation is that we won't see any new radios right away. There's a time lag to these things. They need to modify their designs, tool up the factories, and procure parts before they can build them. They also need to go through the FCC Type Acceptance procedure. Then they need to build then, ship them, and get them into stores for retail sales and warehouses for internet sales.

My best guess is that we might see something in time for Christmas, probably repackaged existing FRS/GMRS radios with new advertising claims, etc. as FRS only. Somebody might surprise us with new products by then, but I think we'd see those in the spring of 2018.

I don't think we'll see a ground swell of 5 watt GMRS portables in the stores for quite a while.
Are there any 5 watt GMRS portables on the market now, without FRS?
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