PSR-500 Any Fix For Cutting Out & Interruptions On P25?

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jm1977

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A few years ago I was dealing with an issue where my PSR-500 (and also my PRO-106) scanners would cut out before the end of communications while listening to P25-auto police/fire/emt broadcasts. I have since given up and just lost hope in solving the issue for my scanners. At the time I was researching this issue years ago, I found many other members complaining of the same issues but never was there any fixes in any of the threads.

So here I am again to attempt to solve this issue (a sucker for more punishment I guess that I am) and was wondering if there has been any solutions to this issue in the last few years which I gave up on it all. I would like to stress that ALL priority settings are indeed set to OFF on my scanner. I double checked them all.

So I will search these forums for new answers/solutions/fixes, but in the meantime, if anyone can chime in and tell me if a solution has been found for this issue, I would GREATLY, GREATLY, GREATLY appreciate it!!!

Thanks.
 

gewecke

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Set your delay to 30, make sure global attenuator is off, also make weather priority is off. I've never had P25 traffic drop out early. There are other settings that might cause it, but try that for now. :wink: 73, n9zas
 

jm1977

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Set your delay to 30, make sure global attenuator is off, also make weather priority is off. I've never had P25 traffic drop out early. There are other settings that might cause it, but try that for now. :wink: 73, n9zas

Thank you for the reply gewecke. I set my delay to 30 (it was originally set at 20), and confirmed that my Global Attenuator was off, and that my weather priority is off. Every option on my scanner which is a priority is all set to off. Many times when it cuts out, it seems to be holding the same broadcast but does cuts off during mid conversation. I purchased my PSR-500 scanner brand new, and my other scanner which gives me the same exact issues is a near-mint condition PRO-106. Both scanners have the same issues so I dont think it could be any malfunctions with the scanner. But I cant figure out what is wrong unless the PSR-500 & PRO-106 models are just defects from the factory. It is very frustrating to say the least.

Any other options that you may suggest would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 

gewecke

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How many bars are you seeing when your scanner stops on a P25 signal? Do you see the T flashing on the top of the display ? What kind of antenna are you using? 73, n9zas
 

budevans

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A few years ago I was dealing with an issue where my PSR-500 (and also my PRO-106) scanners would cut out before the end of communications while listening to P25-auto police/fire/emt broadcasts. I have since given up and just lost hope in solving the issue for my scanners. At the time I was researching this issue years ago, I found many other members complaining of the same issues but never was there any fixes in any of the threads.

So here I am again to attempt to solve this issue (a sucker for more punishment I guess that I am) and was wondering if there has been any solutions to this issue in the last few years which I gave up on it all. I would like to stress that ALL priority settings are indeed set to OFF on my scanner. I double checked them all.

So I will search these forums for new answers/solutions/fixes, but in the meantime, if anyone can chime in and tell me if a solution has been found for this issue, I would GREATLY, GREATLY, GREATLY appreciate it!!!

Thanks.

jm1977,

I've had my PSR-500 for eight years. I monitor all sorts of traffic, P25, Motorola Type II Trunking, EDACS and conventional. My scanner doesn't drop prior to the end of transmissions.

You need to provide some information about the system or systems that you are having the problem. The System Name, the type of System (Trunked, Conventional, etc..) and general location.

FYI, Without a rough idea as to what the issue might be, I wouldn't blindly start making changes. Yeah you can change things back, but shooting in the dark can be really frustrating. If I were to take a Wild guess, since it's a P25 system my first guess would be Simulcast. But let's not guess. Provide the additional info.
 

ScannerSK

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It sounds like P25 simulcast problems. Are you monitoring a P25 simulcast system? This is a system in which multiple towers transmit on identical frequencies over a wide area. The signals arriving from multiple towers on the same frequency make it hard for scanners to decode the signal properly due to the constantly shifting constructive interference and destructive interference.

If you are monitoring a simulcast system, there is not too much a person can do. At times, turning on the attenuator can help in this situation (to eliminate interference from weaker towers further away) or using a directional antenna if possible to focus on a single tower can help.

I have an issue on our P25 simulcast system in which just one of the tower output frequencies cuts out while the rest are rather stable. Sometimes by laying the scanner down flat and trying different positions will assist with locating a good spot for overall reception.

Our scanners are just not made to monitor P25 simulcast systems. Possibly this is related to your issue.

Shawn
 

jm1977

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How many bars are you seeing when your scanner stops on a P25 signal? Do you see the T flashing on the top of the display ? What kind of antenna are you using? 73, n9zas

I always see 5 bars on my scanner when the scanner stops, And there is a "T" that flashes on the top of my screen while it scans and also when it stops scanning and I am listening to conversation. There is also a "G" next to the flashing "T" but the "G" doesnt flash. I am using the stock antenna. Thanks.
 

jm1977

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jm1977,

I've had my PSR-500 for eight years. I monitor all sorts of traffic, P25, Motorola Type II Trunking, EDACS and conventional. My scanner doesn't drop prior to the end of transmissions.

You need to provide some information about the system or systems that you are having the problem. The System Name, the type of System (Trunked, Conventional, etc..) and general location.

FYI, Without a rough idea as to what the issue might be, I wouldn't blindly start making changes. Yeah you can change things back, but shooting in the dark can be really frustrating. If I were to take a Wild guess, since it's a P25 system my first guess would be Simulcast. But let's not guess. Provide the additional info.

Thank you for your reply budevans. The system name is: Ohio MARCS-IP: Multi-Agency Radio Communications (P25), and is trunked, and my area is Fairfield/Hamilton Ohio in Butler County.

I also see that related notes for my system has it as a: "Simulcast site owned by Butler County". So I gather that Simulcast may be a problem for receiving conversation correctly? If so, is there any fix or modifications that work? Thanks.
 

jm1977

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It sounds like P25 simulcast problems. Are you monitoring a P25 simulcast system? This is a system in which multiple towers transmit on identical frequencies over a wide area. The signals arriving from multiple towers on the same frequency make it hard for scanners to decode the signal properly due to the constantly shifting constructive interference and destructive interference.

If you are monitoring a simulcast system, there is not too much a person can do. At times, turning on the attenuator can help in this situation (to eliminate interference from weaker towers further away) or using a directional antenna if possible to focus on a single tower can help.

I have an issue on our P25 simulcast system in which just one of the tower output frequencies cuts out while the rest are rather stable. Sometimes by laying the scanner down flat and trying different positions will assist with locating a good spot for overall reception.

Our scanners are just not made to monitor P25 simulcast systems. Possibly this is related to your issue.

Shawn

Thank you for your reply ScannerSK. On the RadioRefernce info page for my area, it has notes for my scanning area that says: "Simulcast site owned by Butler County". So I assume that there is no solution to my scanning issues as a result of the Simulcast in my area unless I use a directional antenna? Are there any digital scanners on the market which can work with Simulcast areas? Thanks.
 

gewecke

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Since you've established that you ARE on a simulcast system then turning your Attenuator (Att) back on in your P25 settings ( Not Global) this may help with your simulcast issue since you are already seeing 5 bars. Doing this might decrease the signal from the second tower enough to make the decoded audio readable. If not, try moving the scanner around to different areas of your house, closer or farther from windows. I don't have simulcast issues so I'm sure more members will be happy to help who've experienced this. Shortening your supplied antenna to about 3-4" might also help, but you will have to extend it more if you have conventional frequencies loaded. 73, n9zas
 

kruser

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Thank you for your reply ScannerSK. On the RadioRefernce info page for my area, it has notes for my scanning area that says: "Simulcast site owned by Butler County". So I assume that there is no solution to my scanning issues as a result of the Simulcast in my area unless I use a directional antenna? Are there any digital scanners on the market which can work with Simulcast areas? Thanks.

That site could be a bear. The notes for the Butler county site say it has 15 tower locations so getting a signal from just one site could be hard.

Try the suggestions that gewecke mentions and you may get lucky where only one site is providing the signal which is the goal when trying to cure simulcast issues. You will never stop reception from all the other tower locations but if you can maximize the signal so it is coming from one tower stronger than the others may be all that is needed.
I've seen this system mentioned pretty often which makes me think it is a hard one so it could require a lot of experimenting to try and find a good spot in your home using an internal antenna.

As far as different radios go, the Uniden 436HP (portable) and 536HP (mobile or base) do usually provide better reception of simulcast systems.
In your case, it would be the portable or 436HP that would be a handheld model similar to your PSR500.
You can set the P25 decode mode to manual for this system or site and then try different values for the threshold level. The PSR500 attempts to guess the correct threshold value but when hearing more than one tower on the same frequency, the radio can get confused and never settle on a decent value.
The 436HP will also do P25 Phase II which your PSR500 or the RadioShack model will not do in the event they do turn on Phase II mode on the system.

I have a similar situation here with a simulcast county system that covers three counties.
My PSR500 or 600 had very bad simulcast issues on this system but when I bought my first Uniden 536HP, the simulcast issue was virtually gone once I set the P25 mode to Manual and found the level the site liked was 7 or 6.
I later bought a second 536HP and two 436HP portable models almost a year apart for the 436HP model.
The reception of this simulcast site was night and day different from my PSR 500 or 600.
I went from a site that I could hardly monitor to a site that is now nearly crystal clear

Going from a GRE based radio to a Uniden does have a learning curve that can be intimidating at first but the Sentinel software the comes with the 436HP actually works very well and becomes easier the more you use it.

There are many users in the Uniden forums that will help you out.

Of course these Uniden models are not cheap, they do outperform the GRE model you listed by a wide margin in most cases when it comes to simulcast issues. If you want to stay with a portable model, the 436HP is the cheaper of the two by $100 dollars or so.

I knew the 536HP handled simulcast issues better than any previous model but I was not expecting it to handle it nearly as well as it did.
The setting that made the biggest change for me was going into the site and changing the P25 Digital Threshold Mode from Auto to Manual and then changing the Digital Threshold Level to a setting of 7. Your site may need a different level but there is a diagnostic screen you can view that will show the Error rate. Ideally, you want that to read zero but that is where you play with the level and find the one that gives you the lowest error rate number. You can actually change the level on the fly while you are receiving a talkgroup and have the diagnostic line displayed. If the talkgroup goes silent while trying different levels, just stop and wait until a talkgroup comes back on the air. You also try and adjust the level for the lowest reading while they are actually talking and not during pauses in the audio.

I'm not saying this will make your reception perfect but it stands a darn good chance that it may.
The other nice thing about the 4 or 536HP is the fact that you can set the digital mode to manual for every site you have programmed and also set the level to whichever gives you the best results for each site you monitor.
Some of the other new Uniden models do have a hidden menu you access at power on and then you can manipulate the digital levels but those settings affect all sites in the radio and don't allow for setting each site to a different level. Only the BCD436HP and BCD536HP models allow each site to be set individually which is what you want.
I wish Uniden would release a cheaper model that allowed changing the digital setting for each site but they have not done that since the really old 996T models. When they came out with the 996XT models, they also removed that option.
The Home Patrol 1 series brought back a manual digital mode setting that worked but is never made it past the Beta stage of that models firmware.
I don't know if the Home Patrol 2 also had the beta firmware that allowed the user to set the mode to Manual but if so, it should also work and the Home Patrol 2 also does P25 Phase II. The biggest problem with this beta firmware was the fact that you had to change the digital mode to manual each time you turned the radio on.
So the BCD436HP is what I'd recommend for the Ohio Marc's-IP system.

Before doing anything, you may ask if the database administrator for this forum will move it from the GRE forum over to the Ohio forum where you will probably get much better answers than you are here as the Ohio forum will have many users that monitor that system and should be able to provide you with much better answers for the Marc's-IP system.

The GRE radios are also known for front end problems. This includes the cloned models that RadioShack sold such as the PRO-106 that you also purchased, Since Whistler bought the rights from GRE, the front end problem also carried over to whatever model is the clone of the PSR-500. I don't recall which Whistler model is the clone from the GRE PSR-500. But whichever it is, you don't want it!

One nice thing if you do purchase a Uniden BCD436HP is the fact that you don't need to become a Premium Subscriber here as that is included with Uniden's Sentinel software. There are advantages to becoming a premium member here but for now, you don't need it if you purchase the Uniden model mentioned above.

So... I'd start by seeing if this forums database admin or moderator will move this thread over to the Ohio forum where there will be a bunch of Ohio Marc's-IP system users. Those users will hopefully help you with a good radio selection as well as setup settings.

If you get stuck with the Uniden 436HP setup part, start a new thread in one of the Uniden forums where someone will help you get the 436HP setup and an Ohio Marc's-IP system favorites list created. I strongly suggest setting up a favorite list for the Marc's-IP system as that allows you to turn features on and off for the Marc's-IP system and then turn off the feature to scan from the main database. That makes changes a lot easier as you will only be changing the Marc's-IP system you created.
There is a good chance that just buying the 436HP and setting up a Mark's-IP favorite will fix your reception problems.
At this point, you do not need to purchase any of Uniden's feature updates like Pro-Voice or DMR. You only need to update the radio to the latest firmware which is all done from the Sentinel program. Sentinel itself may also need to be updated but the Uniden forum will have the instructions how to do that.

This is a lot of info but it is not really near as hard as it may seem.
Once you have Sentinel updated and the radios firmware updated, then someone in the Ohio forum should be able to walk you through setting up a Marc's-IP favorite list and turning off the main database so you are only scanning your Marc's favorite list.
Once that is done, hopefully someone will have told you how to change and set the Digital Mode settings to work the best for the Marc's system and also assign quick keys.

Once you get a system setup through Sentinel, it gets easier with each system you add at a later time.
 

budevans

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Thank you for your reply ScannerSK. On the RadioRefernce info page for my area, it has notes for my scanning area that says: "Simulcast site owned by Butler County". So I assume that there is no solution to my scanning issues as a result of the Simulcast in my area unless I use a directional antenna? Are there any digital scanners on the market which can work with Simulcast areas? Thanks.

The biggest issue is that the Simulcast problem is unique to each persons location. Plus it can be variable changing from day to day. Some locations are extremely tough to deal with. Others there can be simple fixes.

Simulcast can be a problem for every scanner on the market today. But there are some things you can try. As an example you mentioned a directional antenna may help. In fact that was the solution that worked the best for me and my PSR-500 with MARCS-IP.

Several years ago while shopping at Micro Center I came across a desktop directional TV antenna on sale. If I remember correctly for $9. So I said what the heck and bought it and a BNC adapter for a $1. Ten dollars plus tax.

Here's a link: Supersonic HDTV and Digital TV Indoor Antenna 927517 - Micro Center

There are other things that you can try for free. Try placing your scanner in another location. You may not have to move it much to get improved reception. Another option that worked for me, I laid the scanner on it's back and pointed it in different directions. I found several that worked pretty well at eliminating or minimizing the Simulcast distortion.

As kruser posted a more expensive option might be to try another brand of scanner. I own a PSR-500 and also a BCD436HP.

Kruser posted that the Uniden 436 & 536 were much better at handling the Simulcast system.

In my case neither scanner handles the Simulcast all of the time. One day the 436 receives better, the next day the 500 works better. I just monitor MARCS-IP with which ever scanner is working the best that day.

If the Simulcast is bad on both scanners, I connect one to the directional antenna I posted the link for. Several folks in the Cleveland area bought those antenna's which they nicknamed Bud's PMY (Poor Man's Yagi). FYI, the PMY antenna has a weighted base and the antenna can be pointed in any direction. Plus is can be set as horizontal or vertical.

Last but not least kruser suggested that you ask the admins or moderators to move this thread to the Ohio forum. If that doesn't pan out, just do a post in the Ohio forum about your Simulcast issue with MARCS-IP. I'm fairly certain you'll hear back from folks.
 

jm1977

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gewecke, kruser, budevans, thank you VERY much for this wealth of info which you all have just posted for me above!! You guys are amazingly knowledgeable on the topic, and are extremely generous to take the time to help me out here. I truly appreciate it.

Although it is a bit disappointing to discover that my issue cannot be 100% resolved by making edits to the settings in my current scanners, it is a huge relief to finally discover the reason for my issues now. I will take into consideration all that has been suggested here, and see how it turns out. And it is great news to hear that there are scanners out there that work better for simulcast areas. I will certainly consider purchasing those such scanners in the near future.

So I have one more question in regards to simulcast areas. Is it possible to experience a dramatic improvement of my issue simply by scanning in a different physical area of my county? Say for example I were to use my scanners while visiting friends or family whom all live in the same simulcast county, is it possible to get a noticeable improvement in the scanning results? Also those friends and family within my county all live in very rural areas, and so I was curious if that may help my scanning results. Anyone think so?

And once again, thank you all for the excellent info here, it is MUCH appreciated!!!!!!!!
 

jm1977

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Since you've established that you ARE on a simulcast system then turning your Attenuator (Att) back on in your P25 settings ( Not Global) this may help with your simulcast issue since you are already seeing 5 bars. Doing this might decrease the signal from the second tower enough to make the decoded audio readable. If not, try moving the scanner around to different areas of your house, closer or farther from windows. I don't have simulcast issues so I'm sure more members will be happy to help who've experienced this. Shortening your supplied antenna to about 3-4" might also help, but you will have to extend it more if you have conventional frequencies loaded. 73, n9zas

gewecke, I have another couple options that I see called Global Atten and AttenMode. What should they be set to for simulcast areas? Because I just changed them by accident and forgot what the default setting was. Thanks.
 
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jm1977

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kruser, which direction (increase or decrease value) would you suggest I experiment with on the Threshold options? For the Threshold Hi option, the current/factory value is 95. For the Threshold Lo value, it is on 75. Do you think increasing or decreasing the values would be best to try first to help me with simulcast? Thanks!
 

I_am_Alpha1

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I too have suffered with Simulcast issues. I've purchased the Uniden 436 and 536. I've tried everything--including standing on one foot while rubbing my tummy and patting my head. All solutions are hit and miss. There are NO SCANNERS on the market that work with Simulcast systems--they ALL will be intermittent.

There IS A SOLUTION. E-Bay has several Motorola XTS-5000 radios. Look for a flashcode that has option Q361 (this site has a flashcode decoder) as well as 700/800 MHz. It's lots of work, but a commercial P25 radio will not have simulcast issues. Just a question of how bad to you want it.

Most of the radios are ASK write protected. You'll have to track down a program called CP Fix to unlock it (and it works on a windows xp machine with an actual serial port). Next you'll have to get a program to write a System Key for the specific system you want to listen to. E-Bay has CPS software and cables for programming. The software is a PITA to use and it will take all day. Make sure you program for non-affilitated scan only or dispatch will stun your radio and turn it into a brick (watch MisterTwister55 video on YouTube--it's a starting place). Total cost will be less than a Uniden scanner. The only drawback I've found is that you can only scan 15 talkgroups at a time--each channel can have only 15. I showed mine around and now there are 7 others.

My XTS5000 sits next to my Uniden 436. The 436 is deaf as a post most of the time. The XTS5000 talks up a storm.
 
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ScannerSK

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kruser, which direction (increase or decrease value) would you suggest I experiment with on the Threshold options? For the Threshold Hi option, the current/factory value is 95. For the Threshold Lo value, it is on 75. Do you think increasing or decreasing the values would be best to try first to help me with simulcast? Thanks!

Those settings in the PSR-500/600 will not help with decoding issues on a simulcast system. In my area there is only one control channel in use at any given time for the simulcast system. The Threshold Hi and Threshold Lo settings only determine the best control frequency to use but have no effect on decoding capabilities.

There are some advanced settings that should effect decoding however as far as I am aware no one including myself has ever noticed improvement from changing any of those settings.

Shawn
 

jm1977

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I too have suffered with Simulcast issues. I've purchased the Uniden 436 and 536. I've tried everything--including standing on one foot while rubbing my tummy and patting my head. All solutions are hit and miss. There are NO SCANNERS on the market that work with Simulcast systems--they ALL will be intermittent.

There IS A SOLUTION. E-Bay has several Motorola XTS-5000 radios. Look for a flashcode that has option Q361 (this site has a flashcode decoder) as well as 700/800 MHz. It's lots of work, but a commercial P25 radio will not have simulcast issues. Just a question of how bad to you want it.

Most of the radios are ASK write protected. You'll have to track down a program called CP Fix to unlock it (and it works on a windows xp machine with an actual serial port). Next you'll have to get a program to write a System Key for the specific system you want to listen to. E-Bay has CPS software and cables for programming. The software is a PITA to use and it will take all day. Make sure you program for non-affilitated scan only or dispatch will stun your radio and turn it into a brick (watch MisterTwister55 video on YouTube--it's a starting place). Total cost will be less than a Uniden scanner. The only drawback I've found is that you can only scan 15 talkgroups at a time--each channel can have only 15. I showed mine around and now there are 7 others.

My XTS5000 sits next to my Uniden 436. The 436 is deaf as a post most of the time. The XTS5000 talks up a storm.

I_am_Alpha1, thank you VERY MUCH for the reply. I have thought about finding a used radio on ebay to resolve the issue, but I thought it would be too difficult to set up. But with the info you provided, I may give it a try. If you have any additional tips/suggestions/advice, I am all ears. Thanks a lot!
 

jm1977

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I too have suffered with Simulcast issues. I've purchased the Uniden 436 and 536. I've tried everything--including standing on one foot while rubbing my tummy and patting my head. All solutions are hit and miss. There are NO SCANNERS on the market that work with Simulcast systems--they ALL will be intermittent.

There IS A SOLUTION. E-Bay has several Motorola XTS-5000 radios. Look for a flashcode that has option Q361 (this site has a flashcode decoder) as well as 700/800 MHz. It's lots of work, but a commercial P25 radio will not have simulcast issues. Just a question of how bad to you want it.

Most of the radios are ASK write protected. You'll have to track down a program called CP Fix to unlock it (and it works on a windows xp machine with an actual serial port). Next you'll have to get a program to write a System Key for the specific system you want to listen to. E-Bay has CPS software and cables for programming. The software is a PITA to use and it will take all day. Make sure you program for non-affilitated scan only or dispatch will stun your radio and turn it into a brick (watch MisterTwister55 video on YouTube--it's a starting place). Total cost will be less than a Uniden scanner. The only drawback I've found is that you can only scan 15 talkgroups at a time--each channel can have only 15. I showed mine around and now there are 7 others.

My XTS5000 sits next to my Uniden 436. The 436 is deaf as a post most of the time. The XTS5000 talks up a storm.

Thanks again for your reply. Can you please tell me what is meant by "ASK write protected"? And if I were to find a Motorola XTS-5000 radio for sale that was not ASK write protected, then would that eliminate all of the complicated programming that you mentioned in your reply? Do you know of any place online who sells used Motorola XTS-5000 radios which are already programmed for use as a scanner? And if it comes without the ASK write protection, would I still have to do programming for it to work in my area? Or would it automaticly know how to sync up to whatever is being broadcast in my area?

I am really interested in this option but not sure that I am experienced enough in scanning and radios to ever get it to work. But I am so willing to try it being that I live in a simulcast area and really dont have any other option to get perfect broadcasts. Any help you can provide would be super appreciated. Thanks!
 

Spitfire8520

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The real radio method of "scanning" is not a great way to go, especially for an inexperienced user. It is expensive and can go wrong in any number of ways.

I would highly suggest researching the many different solutions which are cheaper and safer. The http://forums.radioreference.com/al...ew-g4-g5-pagers-somewhat-limited-scanner.html might be a good place to start. Cheaper than a real radio and there is no way you can accidentally program it in a way that could interfere with a system.
 
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