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Harris / MA/COM / GE / Ericsson Forum - For general discussion of MA/COM EDACS and ProVoice systems, including equipment.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-13-2008, 3:03 PM
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I looked in my CSD Manager application and found the following in a help menu for "Scramble Data Call":


The Site Controller is capable of placing random data calls on working channels to discourage unauthorized monitoring of the site.
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Old 11-12-2009, 2:45 PM
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Originally Posted by EDACSTECH View Post
I looked in my CSD Manager application and found the following in a help menu for "Scramble Data Call":


The Site Controller is capable of placing random data calls on working channels to discourage unauthorized monitoring of the site.
This is the first 100% true statement I have seen so far in this thread. I just returned from a two week school at Harris RF on EDACS and the instructor made it a point to point this feature out. He called it the "screw with scanners" feature. Personally, I do very little EDACS listening, basically only the system I maintain (NASA Wallops Flight Facility), so I have never really had to deal with any of this as a scanner user.

Having said that, my OLD Uniden BC-780 sits on my desk at work and tracks our EDACS system 24/7 and seems to do a pretty good job. I hear the occasional EOT tone, but not that often. My PRO-106 is a champ as scanning anything I put into it

EDACSTECH, I noticed you are just north of me in Ocean City, MD.
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Old 11-12-2009, 3:06 PM
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Do you by any chance have an audio recording of the "Scramble Data Call" that you mention? It would be interesting to hear in action.

In Richmond, CA and Riverside County, CA the systems had some different sounding beeps [audio] that caused most GRE and ALL Uniden scanners to stop tracking properly. I highly doubt it was intentional and it was only a single channel... but certainly caused headaches unless the EndTone delay could be changed in the scanner (only Pro-106/197, PSR 500/600 support this). Here is another thread about it. Thankfully, one year later the beeps have returned to their normal sound on the Riverside system.

Last edited by brandon; 11-12-2009 at 3:09 PM..
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Old 11-13-2009, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by EDACSTECH View Post
The beeps now heard from a conventional receiver after each working channel call is signalling to the radios that the call is finished.
Are you sure about this? The mobile receiver is muted as a function of the subaudible low speed data that rides on the active voice channels. As you pointed out, the beeps vary with GETC firmware versions. Older mobile radios would have no way of understanding what the later firmware code is trying to tell them. How would one version sending the GE jingle work with radios hearing five 4 KHz beeps? And what of the one channel reported to have a different frequency beep?

I was the microwave engineer for an agency that runs a large EDACS system, so I worked very closely with factory engineers when the system was designed and put in. When I asked, THEY told me that the beeps (and the jingle, and some of the other annoying noises) were there just to discourage eavesdropping - this, in the days before trunk-trackers. It was just something to put on the repeater carrier tail, but really served no purpose other than to exist.

To the best of my knowledge, those beeps still serve no useful function to the actual users of an EDACS system, in fact, if the low speed 'disconnect word' is missed by an actual EDACS radio, the beeps will occasionally be heard - much to the annoyance of the users.

And yes, I KNOW this is an old thread. =)
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Old 11-23-2009, 5:14 PM
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try to disable the delay when scanning. in the newer pro's from rad shack the delay feature is factory defaulted to be enable when scanning. on my edacs system i had to disable each talk group delay manually to avoid the beeps.
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Old 02-04-2010, 9:26 AM
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You would think that the scanner manufacturers would learn after the second or third firmware update to eliminate the tone hangup. The proper way would be to decode the EOM data.
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Old 04-08-2018, 1:44 AM
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Default I designed the GE jingle

I wish I had seen this discussion years ago....probably no one will ever see this posting, but for the sake of historical record, here goes.

I’m the guy that designed and implemented that super-annoying GE jingle tone sequence at the end of each working channel drop. And yes, it was intended to be super-annoying….in fact, that was the whole point. So why did we do this? Well, there had been some incidents in Florida where drug dealers, using scanners, would catch wind of police raids and would bolt before the police arrived. The police didn’t like this. The communications folks there asked us if there was anything we could do.

I was given the “scanner jammer” assignment to come up with a 3-5 second series of tones (whatever I wanted) to be played on the GE 16+ system working channels (where conversations take place) after the normal drop channel signaling had taken place. The drop channel signaling tells the trunked radios to return to the control channel. People who used scanners of the day, which simply detected carrier, would hear those tones.

I thought about it for a while and decided to see if I could approximate the “G..EEEEE..we bring good things to life” jingle. The modem chip on the GETC wasn’t very flexible, so I couldn’t get each note perfect, but got it as close as possible. In retrospect, the fact that it was off enough from the actual notes that it was hard to tell for sure if it was the jingle ended up making it better.

Florida police loved it. Scanner users hated it. I tested it over several days listening to those horrid tones hundreds of times, so I understand their displeasure. There was even a police beat reporter in Florida who wrote an article back then about how annoying it was….I fessed up to him about 15 years ago.

Like I said at the beginning, probably no one will ever see this posting, but if you did, I hope you enjoyed the bit of history.
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Old 04-08-2018, 5:40 PM
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I wish I had seen this discussion years ago....probably no one will ever see this posting, but for the sake of historical record, here goes.

I’m the guy that designed and implemented that super-annoying GE jingle tone sequence at the end of each working channel drop. And yes, it was intended to be super-annoying….in fact, that was the whole point. So why did we do this? Well, there had been some incidents in Florida where drug dealers, using scanners, would catch wind of police raids and would bolt before the police arrived. The police didn’t like this. The communications folks there asked us if there was anything we could do.

I was given the “scanner jammer” assignment to come up with a 3-5 second series of tones (whatever I wanted) to be played on the GE 16+ system working channels (where conversations take place) after the normal drop channel signaling had taken place. The drop channel signaling tells the trunked radios to return to the control channel. People who used scanners of the day, which simply detected carrier, would hear those tones.

I thought about it for a while and decided to see if I could approximate the “G..EEEEE..we bring good things to life” jingle. The modem chip on the GETC wasn’t very flexible, so I couldn’t get each note perfect, but got it as close as possible. In retrospect, the fact that it was off enough from the actual notes that it was hard to tell for sure if it was the jingle ended up making it better.

Florida police loved it. Scanner users hated it. I tested it over several days listening to those horrid tones hundreds of times, so I understand their displeasure. There was even a police beat reporter in Florida who wrote an article back then about how annoying it was….I fessed up to him about 15 years ago.

Like I said at the beginning, probably no one will ever see this posting, but if you did, I hope you enjoyed the bit of history.
That was classic GETC code rev 10. My 1992 system was delivered with this code and by the next rev update or two it was gone and replaced with three beeps.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2018, 6:24 PM
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I remember visiting Tucson, AZ in 1992, and I had a Uniden Bearcat 800XLT with me in the hotel room. Those tones drove me crazy trying to listen to the Tucson system. "da-da-da-da-Dat-Dat-DAT-DAT!" after every transmission. I finally gave up and listened to local sheriff and state patrol instead, I think.
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Old 04-08-2018, 6:30 PM
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Default i was up in the new york area at that time

and i was getting used to it.
hitting the scan button was also my past time.
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 04-08-2018, 8:00 PM
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Wow an 8 year old thread back from the dead on a format that is just about dead too
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Old 04-08-2018, 9:30 PM
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It's back for a good reason, so what's your problem?
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Old 04-08-2018, 10:12 PM
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what good reason? to discuss something that is now history?
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Old 04-08-2018, 10:27 PM
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Always thinking of ways to screw scanner buffs- I would rather they gave a mandatory sentence if used in the commission of a felony.
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Old 04-09-2018, 8:24 AM
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what good reason? to discuss something that is now history?
You have a myopic viewpoint. In my local area a large percentage of law enforcement is on EDACS where they will likely remain for the next several years.
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Old 04-09-2018, 9:32 AM
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what good reason? to discuss something that is now history?
It might be history where you are, but it's still the main thing they are using for Public safety here!
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Old 04-09-2018, 9:35 AM
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Default Edacs Anti-scanner Tones

Reviving old threads is generally frowned upon unless something of value is added. In this case, the post contributes value to the thread.



Next time, if you feel the post adds nothing of value, report it. Complaining about it in the thread adds nothing of value and is off-topic


Back to the on-topic discussion.
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Old 04-09-2018, 6:05 PM
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Wasn't Manatee County, FL one of the first to get EDACS?
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Old 04-09-2018, 6:25 PM
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Originally Posted by WNZT398 View Post
That was classic GETC code rev 10. My 1992 system was delivered with this code and by the next rev update or two it was gone and replaced with three beeps.
IIRC, the GE jingle tones were removed because the FCC decided that they violated the rule against broadcasting music.
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Old 04-09-2018, 8:09 PM
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OK, lets rehash an old topic....

The CHANNEL DROP MESSAGE alert tones, originally the 'GE Jingle' that later changed to 'three 1000 Hz beeps' after Ericsson purchased GE's two-way radio division in Lynchburg Virginia were simply an audio indicator of the group call was over, and the working channel repeater was being released and returned to the pool for assignment to another call.

Period. Simple as that. Nothing of a 'conspiracy theory' to thwart anyone!

I should know. I worked at Ericsson after the transition from GE to Ericsson, and more specifically for ten(10) years with the gentleman who invented the GETC, and who wrote the code (firmware) contained within the GETC's to make them trunk: Mr. Alan Hill.

BTW: GETC stands for General Electric Trunking Card.

How the original GE Jingle came about on the GETC's...

At the time, GE wholly owned the company. The GETC had been developed for the introduction of GE's offering of the APCO Project-16 format trunking, which was known under various marketing names in the early days: Sixteen, 16-Plus, Sweet-16, DACS and finally EDACS (Enhanced Digital Access Communications System).

From the beginning there was a data flag in the Low Speed data stream to indicate to the user radios receiving a Group Call (or I-Call) that the call was concluded, and the working channel repeater was going to drop, returning to the pool for assignment. It worked as intended... But, for Old School Techs, there was no obvious audio alert tone that the channel had been dropped, like there was in the old GE-Marc trunking. So, a solution was sought.

Enter in Mr Hill, a very late night working on a deadline at Mountain View Road factory building, some pizza and from his personal story........a few beers! OK, maybe MORE than a few.

A simple sequence of tones was needed for the audible channel drop alert. About the same time, GE's Marketing Department had conceived their infamous GE Jingle. An overtired Mr. Hill got a (alcohol inspired?) wild-assed idea and instead of a generic single 1000 Hz Beep Tone, he wrote a couple of lines of code to produce the GE Jingle as the repeater drop alert tone. GE's Upper Management absolutely loved it !!!!


Fast forward a few years....
Ericsson for various reasons ( I won't bore you with) purchased the land mobile radio and cellular phone division of GE. With that, Ericsson had one calendar year to get all of GE's trademarked (and copyrighted) logos, brand names not purchased, etc. off of everything. Which is normal in the corporate world.

The GE Jingle was a copyrighted trademark. So, it had to go too. This prompted the change to the three 1000 Hz beep, being generic, remains to this day.


Hopefully this will close this dialog.
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