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HF/MW/LW Equipment - For general and technical discussion of all receivers which cover the HF bands. For HF tranceiver discussion please use the Amateur Radio Equipment forum above.

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2017, 9:41 AM
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Default Cheap Radio with ALE?

Hi
Is there any cheap Radio with ALE who fit in a Backpack (include Akku)?
Thanks
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Old 06-25-2017, 10:37 AM
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None. ALE can be a $5k or more option on some radios. Surplus military radios with working ALE go for a lot of money. The only cheap route is using the free ALE computer program with a compatible radio.
prcguy


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Hi
Is there any cheap Radio with ALE who fit in a Backpack (include Akku)?
Thanks
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Old 06-30-2017, 4:57 AM
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hmm is there an Software Solution who support SDR Dongle?
Like define 10, 20 Channels who get monitored 24/7 with a handfull SDR Dongle and when one of them find the Signal the Radio switch to the channel and the Software can run truth.
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Old 06-30-2017, 7:29 AM
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That would be a great option, but I've never seen ALE offered for SDR dongles. Anyone up to writing a bunch of code? I wonder if the SDR dongle audio could be piped to the existing PC-ALE software used with various amateur radios?
prcguy


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Originally Posted by Your_account View Post
hmm is there an Software Solution who support SDR Dongle?
Like define 10, 20 Channels who get monitored 24/7 with a handfull SDR Dongle and when one of them find the Signal the Radio switch to the channel and the Software can run truth.

Last edited by prcguy; 06-30-2017 at 7:33 AM..
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Old 06-30-2017, 7:49 AM
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I was looking over my Yahoo HFLINK group and there is mention of "SDR ALE" and someone may have successfully used PC ALE with an SDR dongle. You might subscribe to the Yahoo HFLINK group and search around. I also found this older RR post on the subject: https://forums.radioreference.com/sh...ro-dongle.html
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Old 06-30-2017, 4:11 PM
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Now if someone would write an XRS add-on for WinRadio that would decode ALE and then control the receiver - that would be really something! Ah, well, I can dreammmmm
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Old 07-03-2017, 6:31 AM
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the problem with Pipe the Audio to an Software is the most are just made for a Single Channel use.
So that mean it sucks... With an SDR and a Software who is made for there is no problem on the Transmitter Side. The Software just have to transmit on "random" Channels (for example UTC Time + Day = Freq X in a DB) and the other Side know that also.
The Transmitter now can send a short Code and switch immediately to the next channel.
Depend on the Transmitter how fast the Freq Channel need 30x Messages take 60sec?
After that the SDR on the Homebase should receive a Burst and transmit also a set of Messages (contain Signal Quality and other stuff information). When the SDR on the Mobile Site got the "return Messages" the know which channel work and the Radio can build up and Data Link between.

That the theorie...
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Old 07-03-2017, 10:30 PM
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Depending on how hard you look: you can find some ALE equipped radios for around $1000. Sure that might be a bit much for used, aged equipment, but a half-decent basic HF rig still costs $700-800 new, and then you'd still be buying the adapters and such to do HFLINK.

Keep an eye out for Motorola Micom radios. I own two Micom 2E at home - both of which I picked up around $800 each and were in very good cosmetic shape and fully working. With the right searching one might come up around $1000-$1200.

The other option, but is VERY heavy, is to look out for a Harris RF-350 (RT-1446/URC) radio. They can be found for around $700-800, but are almost 85lb! On the bright side they are SOLID radios, and the LPF board can be easily repaired with basic soldering skill. The ALE unit is a RF-7210A DSP unit that is rack mount as well, and is a direct connection to the RF-350. If you keep searching, you can eventually stumble on a RF-355 500w amplifier, and a RF-352 remote control unit which then means you can rack mount all the equipment and run a simple cable to wherever else with your control/audio off another unit. Harris also made an RF-3200 "transportable" HF rig based on this design, but the ALE card might take you a while to find if the radio doesn't already have it. It's benefit is it has a REAL VFO unlike the others I have mentioned or will mention.

Lastly, you can look for ones like the ICOM IC-F7000 (one on sale on Fleabay for $1100) or the later IC-F8100 or 8101. You can also look for a Transworld TW7000 with ALE. There's also the Vertex VX-1400 with the ALE-2 option the Vertex VX-1700 with the ALE-1 option, and the Kenwood TK-90 that has ALE. All except the last one I have seen on sale for around $1000 at one point or another.

There's several Codan models that pop up here and there with ALE on them as well - but they vary wildly in price and availability. The 8528 can be found cheap these days, and it is then needing the 9300 ALE unit to get going like the Harris...
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Old 07-04-2017, 2:12 AM
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hmm thx for the radio the size do no matter for home but its impossible to travel with.
I often have just 23kg for the hole luggage.
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Old 07-04-2017, 9:47 AM
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Then you need to keep an eye out for like the Kenwood TK-90. It's the smallest of the bunch with full power out and ALE. At that point all you need is a tuner (which apparently the LDG KT-100 interfaces perfectly with), and your laptop for CAT control or programming.

If you dig around you can find the Kenwood for around $800 brand new. It is the best bet you'll find for an ALE radio.
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Old 07-04-2017, 11:30 AM
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I've got several HF radios with ALE and am one of the original members of the Yahoo HFLINK group that brought ALE to amateur radio. After the initial testing we did and I connected with the various HFLINK members, I found no real use for ALE myself.

It was fun for a brief time and I even left a 400W Harris ALE base station running at my house while I traveled around with a military PRC-138 ALE manpack and did propagation soundings. After a few days of that it got a little boring and I can't remember when I've used ALE in the last 10yrs. Unless you have a real need for it you will spend a lot of $$ for something that may not get used.
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Old 07-04-2017, 1:20 PM
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That is true. I use ALE when it comes to CAP and DHS SHARES and some other small uses - but for general amateur radio I haven't even thought of loading the HFLINK codeplug into the Micom and trying it out. Now I do like collecting military radios, if I ever find the ones I want... so usually ALE is just a nice experiment then.
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Old 07-04-2017, 2:12 PM
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hmm nobody talk about amateur radio...
I was asking R&S if we could buy and configure that radio: MR3000P the can go down just to 25mhz.
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Old 07-04-2017, 4:15 PM
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Quote:
hmm nobody talk about amateur radio...
Oh yes they did. prcguy brought up the use of PC ALE which is a ham radio project programme.

Quote:
I was looking over my Yahoo HFLINK group and there is mention of "SDR ALE" and someone may have successfully used PC ALE with an SDR dongle.
IMHO ALE is for non-technical operators who just need to make contact with another operator - just push the button and wait until someone answers - for a 'receive only' system to be of any use you will have to know what all the 'possible/probable' frequencies that are allocated to that user and scan them to hopefully pickup the first interrogation.
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Old 07-04-2017, 4:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Your_account View Post
hmm nobody talk about amateur radio...
I was asking R&S if we could buy and configure that radio: MR3000P the can go down just to 25mhz.
You can buy absolutely whatever you want - if you have the money. But you mentioned CHEAP which means that a $12,000+ radio is not in the budget - so I didn't mention the new R&S/Codan/Barrett/Harris/Elbit/Datron/ITT/etc radios out there that will cost as much as a small car once you configure it for portable operation.

Like I said - the Kenwood TK-90 is available WITH ALE for less than $800 out the door:
TK-90

Then you just need a power supply/battery configuration, the LDG KT-100 tuner, and a whip antenna and you can make it JUST as portable as a loaded manpack... and you still get 100w output on the high-end.

I can tell you from using and owning Micoms and working with Harris radios in the military that you won't find a cheaper deal on a capable radio unless you're buying something 20+ years old.
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Old 07-04-2017, 8:59 PM
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Looks like the OP might want to use ALE at 27MHz. If so that would be quite a waste of money.
prcguy

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Originally Posted by NavyBOFH View Post
You can buy absolutely whatever you want - if you have the money. But you mentioned CHEAP which means that a $12,000+ radio is not in the budget - so I didn't mention the new R&S/Codan/Barrett/Harris/Elbit/Datron/ITT/etc radios out there that will cost as much as a small car once you configure it for portable operation.

Like I said - the Kenwood TK-90 is available WITH ALE for less than $800 out the door:
TK-90

Then you just need a power supply/battery configuration, the LDG KT-100 tuner, and a whip antenna and you can make it JUST as portable as a loaded manpack... and you still get 100w output on the high-end.

I can tell you from using and owning Micoms and working with Harris radios in the military that you won't find a cheaper deal on a capable radio unless you're buying something 20+ years old.
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Old 07-05-2017, 7:29 AM
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Quote:
Looks like the OP might want to use ALE at 27MHz.
I will ask R&S what its is possible to go down with the freq.
Quote:
But you mentioned CHEAP which means that a $12,000+ radio is not in the budget
the dont told me any price until i dont have one i will not know.
Quote:
Like I said - the Kenwood TK-90 is available WITH ALE for less than $800 out the door:
but its nothing what you want to put in your Backpack when you fly to an foreign Country. Not even when you Travel by Train or Public Transport.
Quote:
Then you just need a power supply/battery configuration, the LDG KT-100 tuner, and a whip antenna and you can make it JUST as portable as a loaded manpack...
thats adds more and more weight and space.
Quote:
IMHO ALE is for non-technical operators who just need to make contact with another operator - just push the button and wait until someone answers - for a 'receive only' system to be of any use you will have to know what all the 'possible/probable' frequencies that are allocated to that user and scan them to hopefully pickup the first interrogation.
and its nice to transmit Data from/ to an fix Station to an Mobile Setup.
Data could mean just some Number and Letters who make just a scene for an Application.
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Old 07-05-2017, 10:07 AM
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The main selling point of ALE is the ability to have radios scanning multiple HF frequencies, each with different propagation, and when called the radios will sound on each band to find the best band to make contact. If you have CB radios with ALE you are only using it on one narrow frequency range and defeating the purpose of ALE.
prcguy
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Old 07-05-2017, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prcguy View Post
The main selling point of ALE is the ability to have radios scanning multiple HF frequencies, each with different propagation, and when called the radios will sound on each band to find the best band to make contact. If you have CB radios with ALE you are only using it on one narrow frequency range and defeating the purpose of ALE.
prcguy
Exactly. For one - ALE is meant as an HF SSB operation. Yes the frequency doesn't quite matter, but you need other stations on the same desired frequency set to get anywhere with this. Look at the HFLINK setup, which is for amateur radio. Frequencies are used for the best band for contact, as prcguy said, but that works because other stations are doing the same "work" as yours. You cannot just blast out an ALE pattern and expect the radio to tune itself with nothing answering on the other side.

Second, ALE is a contact method. It is meant for selecting the best "net" for contact. It can also be used for SELCALL, or getting a specific HF unit on the other side to know you are "calling" and send it an alert. Same thing for small text messages.

If you are looking for "DATA" as you mentioned, you are not going to get much more than what I just mentioned unless you go for a PACTOR modem and Winlink. That is a completely separate system to getting e-mail and BBS and other limited "internet like data" off HF. If you want to talk to other equipped HF units, on the same band plan, and give them VERY basic status messages at times.... then ALE will work.

As for weight and size - here's a comparison since R&S won't list their actual specs for their models...

Codan 2110 with battery - 5.0kg
Barrett 2090 with battery - 5.22kg
Micom Pathfiner WITHOUT battery - 5.2kg

Those radios above will each run you around $12,000 US to $20,000 US depending on options and batteries. THEY ARE NOT CHEAP! I can tell you R&S will not be cheap either.

You need to manage your expectations at this point and decide what you want or need. From the sounds of it you are looking either for:

1) Multiple HF radios since you have a specific need for a base/mobile communication outside of amateur radio use or licensed commercial use... which means you need to set up both ends of your link

2) You need HF with a PACTOR modem for email access with a laptop to a "base" which can be anywhere with internet or another HF station

3) You need HF with ALE and operating WAY below 25MHz.... somewhere in the 80-40m bands where other ALE operations exist, and hope your other end is in that range as well.


We are trying to help you out but you are not being very helpful yourself. Coming here asking for help with a "never mind I will contact R&S" doesn't assist anyone. Nor does a vague explanation of what frequencies you need to operate on, what "cheap" means to you, or the real necessity of your "data" is... If you can tell us an actual budget, use of the radio, locations the radio will be used, etc... we might actually have something to work on instead of suggesting the best options for what MOST people use. But like I said, unless you're some wealthy person with money to throw away... my opinion of "cheap" is below $1000, where you cannot find a manpack to operate and need to design a "portable" system inside a case that can be loaded in a truck or bus and deployed when needed. Most "backpack" systems are either amateur radio systems you can buy or make for cheap... or you need to start thinking of paying over $10,000 for each radio.
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Old 07-09-2017, 8:58 AM
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Sorry for the late Replay now I am back Home.
Quote:
If you have CB radios with ALE you are only using it on one narrow frequency range and defeating the purpose of ALE.
Around the CB Freq a lot if Italians, Polish,... dont care anything and transmitt with an huge output Power.
Quote:
Codan 2110 with battery - 5.0kg
Barrett 2090 with battery - 5.22kg
Quote:
Those radios above will each run you around $12,000 US to $20,000 US depending on options and batteries.
oke and other options?
Quote:
which means you need to set up both ends of your link
thats the plan.
Quote:
You need HF with ALE and operating WAY below 25MHz.... somewhere in the 80-40m bands where other ALE operations exist, and hope your other end is in that range as well.
thats the plan.
Quote:
Nor does a vague explanation of what frequencies you need to operate on
that where no operation is in use.
Quote:
what "cheap" means to you
a price who alow me to buy it. I will save the most i could.
Quote:
my opinion of "cheap" is below $1000
me to.
Quote:
and need to design a "portable" system inside a case that can be loaded in a truck or bus and deployed when needed.
sry for a Bus Ride I could use my TYT Radio where the range is good enough. a Truck? I dont want to ship it anywhere.
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