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Old 05-09-2017, 7:31 PM
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Question Hytera RD 982 DMR UHF Repeater Programming

With a fellow co-worker on our OEM Communications team we are trying to set up this repeater and need some assistance with CPS in programing it.
Though I have been in radio communications for a long time, It just could be my understanding of terms and newness in understanding DMR. Now I have done a lot reading and have gone through the CPS help file a number of times but I need some clarification and direction if possible.

1. This is a non amateur radio repeater set up. This is being set up on a licensed UHF IG frequency. Therefore Amateur DMR Contacts do not apply.
(I.E.from DMR-MARC etc...)

2. DMR Contact = DMR Talkgroup they are synonymous - correct?

3. It seems to me according to CPS, One has to program each channel separately with the correct CC # and Time Slot (TS) with each corresponding TG/Contact.
Example:

Ch 1 RX 465.5750 TX 460.5750 CC 9 TS 1 TG/Contact 301201
Ch 2 RX 465.5750 TX 460.5750 CC 9 TS 1 TG/Contact 301303
Ch 3 RX 465.5750 TX 460.5750 CC 7 TS 2 TG/Contact 302750

4. The channels then must also be listed in the RX Scan List. Thus the repeater will scan the RX Scan list repeat and pass traffic when the proper TG/Contact access the correct Ch in
the repeater.

5. So if I have 7 TGs I need to program 7 Channels?

Or am I missing something?

If any one has experience in Hytera RD 982 DMR UHF Repeater Programming you can also PM me directly.

Thanks in advance for any assistance.
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Old 05-09-2017, 8:38 PM
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2. DMR Contact = DMR Talkgroup they are synonymous - correct?

That is correct.

3. It seems to me according to CPS, One has to program each channel separately with the correct CC # and Time Slot (TS) with each corresponding TG/Contact.
Example:

Ch 1 RX 465.5750 TX 460.5750 CC 9 TS 1 TG/Contact 301201
Ch 2 RX 465.5750 TX 460.5750 CC 9 TS 1 TG/Contact 301303
Ch 3 RX 465.5750 TX 460.5750 CC 7 TS 2 TG/Contact 302750

This is true also but only in the subscriber radios. You do not have to program contacts or multiple channels in a repeater unless you plan to use it as a base station. Multiple channels not a good idea if the repeater is using a duplexer. If you have separate antennas, maybe. All you need to do is program the TX/RX frequencies and the color code. The subscriber radios are programmed for the time slots you want your talkgroups on or pseudo trunk if you are using Hytera.

I see you have CC9 on your first 2 channels and CC7 for the third. The repeater can have only ONE color code for the repeat pair. Now, there MAY be a way of somebody running scan and different CC's on a repeater but for what I see you are doing, it is very straight-forward.

4. The channels then must also be listed in the RX Scan List. Thus the repeater will scan the RX Scan list repeat and pass traffic when the proper TG/Contact access the correct Ch in the repeater.

No scan list in the repeater. It will pass anything with the proper color code on whichever timeslot it receives on. You CAN set up subscriber access control if you want to limit only your issued ID's to using the machine.

5. So if I have 7 TGs I need to program 7 Channels?

Again, only in your subscriber radios.

Last edited by MSS-Dave; 05-09-2017 at 8:41 PM.. Reason: Having a senior moment with cut n paste n edit.....
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Old 05-09-2017, 9:14 PM
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MSS-Dave

This is true also but only in the subscriber radios. OK, that makes things easier!
You do not have to program contacts or multiple channels in a repeater unless you plan to use it as a base station. No Base Station - Repeater Only.
Multiple channels not a good idea if the repeater is using a duplexer. If you have separate antennas, maybe. OK Got that!
All you need to do is program the TX/RX frequencies and the color code.
Therefore, I only need to program 1 "digital" channel into the repeater.
In the CPS dialog box where you program the frequency pair, CC # it asks for TS 1 or 2, you have to select one, ON the TX side is asks for Contact Name (TG) or do I set it to None?

The subscriber radios are programmed for the time slots you want your talkgroups
on or pseudo trunk if you are using Hytera. (Not Using pseudo trunk)

I see you have CC9 on your first 2 channels and CC7 for the third. The repeater can have only ONE color code for the repeat pair. Now, OK Got that, keeping it simple to one CC then. there MAY be a way of somebody running scan and different CC's on a repeater but for what I see you are doing, it is very straight-forward. OK

4. The channels then must also be listed in the RX Scan List. Thus the repeater will scan the RX Scan list repeat and pass traffic when the proper TG/Contact access the correct Ch in the repeater.

No scan list in the repeater. Leave it Blank or No List - correct?
It will pass anything with the proper color code on whichever time-slot it receives on. As stated above, CPS is requesting to pick a TS and TX Contact/TG how do you address this?
You CAN set up subscriber access control if you want to limit only your issued ID's to using the machine.

5. So if I have 7 TGs I need to program 7 Channels?

Again, only in your subscriber radios. The subscriber radios then do all the "Thinking / Work

What's confusing is the repeater can be used as a base station also. Thereby the programing is very similar to programing mobiles and portables.
IMHO there should be a simple default diagram or template to set up repeater only. It's a learning process for me and my associate, thanks for the assistance.
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Old 05-09-2017, 9:32 PM
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No problem. took a bit to "get it" for me too. Got at least 15 982's out now, some analog but most digital.

Program 1 DIGITAL channel with your TX and RX frequencies. Pick a color code. Think of this as a conventional repeater with PL or DPL. Leave TS 1 selected. Do not select a TX contact, leave your scan list alone as well as your RX Group. Make sure this channel in in the Zone list. you'll notice default you have a couple of digital channels, a couple of analogs and a couple of mixed mode. I usually edit the D1 channel and remove the others just for clarity.

When this is working correctly, you will notice the repeater transmits on BOTH timeslots but only A or B RX will be lit depending on what it is hearing (or both if 2 T/G going at same time..) This is normal.
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Old 05-09-2017, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSS-Dave View Post
No problem. took a bit to "get it" for me too. Got at least 15 982's out now, some analog but most digital.

Program 1 DIGITAL channel with your TX and RX frequencies. Pick a color code. Think of this as a conventional repeater with PL or DPL. Leave TS 1 selected. Do not select a TX contact, leave your scan list alone as well as your RX Group. Make sure this channel in in the Zone list. you'll notice default you have a couple of digital channels, a couple of analogs and a couple of mixed mode. I usually edit the D1 channel and remove the others just for clarity.

When this is working correctly, you will notice the repeater transmits on BOTH timeslots but only A or B RX will be lit depending on what it is hearing (or both if 2 T/G going at same time..) This is normal.
MSS-DAVE

As it stands right now, were planning for 7 Talk groups for each Time Slot (TS) Proposed is that 1 TG in each TS will be encrypted as our "secure" channel if we can get that aspect working???

5 of our Talkgroups are assigned to different agencies (CERT, OEM, Rehab, Interops and Radio Maint) across the 2 Time Slots.

Also want to program 5 separate DPLs TX/RX 12.5 KHz NFM Analog (as backup or alternate) to the DMR TG's

Example: CERT DMR is CC 7 TS 1 and TG 3553,
Their analog would be for TX/RX DPL 351N

Would this be then set up in a separate Mixed Channel(s) or set up in the CPS under Conventional-General Setting-Multi CTC/CDS table?

Please advise.... Thanks
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Old 05-10-2017, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K2YYN View Post
MSS-DAVE

As it stands right now, were planning for 7 Talk groups for each Time Slot (TS) Proposed is that 1 TG in each TS will be encrypted as our "secure" channel if we can get that aspect working???

5 of our Talkgroups are assigned to different agencies (CERT, OEM, Rehab, Interops and Radio Maint) across the 2 Time Slots.

Also want to program 5 separate DPLs TX/RX 12.5 KHz NFM Analog (as backup or alternate) to the DMR TG's

Example: CERT DMR is CC 7 TS 1 and TG 3553,
Their analog would be for TX/RX DPL 351N

Would this be then set up in a separate Mixed Channel(s) or set up in the CPS under Conventional-General Setting-Multi CTC/CDS table?

Please advise.... Thanks
You are looking to have a total of 14 talkgroups on 1 repeater correct? How many radios do you have? I see a big potential for overloading here.
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Old 05-10-2017, 11:18 PM
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Arrow Hytera Repeater Programing

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSS-Dave View Post
You are looking to have a total of 14 talkgroups on 1 repeater correct? How many radios do you have? I see a big potential for overloading here.
MSS-Dave,

Perhaps, I am having delusions of grandeur for this DMR repeater.
That's why I am asking you who has the experience on these important questions?

Here is what we would like to set up on this repeater:

Were going with the "group" setting rather than individual radios.
Its only one repeater.

Individual Radios will be programed with the specific TG and TS to a dedicated Channel.
Based on the table below (black type)
Example:
Ch 1 Rx 464.XXXX TX 469.XXX CC5 TS 1 TG/Call 5771
Ch 3
Rx 464.XXXX TX 469.XXX CC5 TS 2 TG/Call 5883
Ch 5
Rx 464.XXXX TX 469.XXX Analog DPL 416N

No need to program any contacts. Repeater Only, not as a base station.

No real need for RX Groups ... OK, Moot point since were using it as Repeater Only, not as a base.

Question:
Can I use multiple DPLs?
Please see the below diagram of what were trying to accomplish with this unit. The encryption TG is experimental and optional.


SAMPLE OF PROPOSED SYSTEM
Repeater RX Freq: 469.XXXX Repeater TX Freq 464.XXXX
DMR CC 5 Analog NFM 12.5 KHz DPL TX/RX for analog mode

TG TS Allocation DPL TX/RX No of Radios Per TG

5771 1 Town 1 OEM / CERT 172N No more than 5-7 radios
5773 1 Town 2 OEM / CERT 209N
No more than 5-7 radios
5775 1 Town Watch Ops 351 N No more than 5 radios
5777 1 INTEROPS 416N
No More than 7-10 radios
5991 1 Private 1 705N
No more than 3-5 radios
5995 1 Secure 1 (Encrypted) N/A 4 radios
9950 1 Radio Maintenance / TEST TG 506N 2 Radios

5881 2 County Wide Ops 1 111N
No more than 3-5 radios
5883 2 County Wide Ops 2 (Alt) 231N
No more than 3-5 radios
5885 2 Rehab 1 Ops 316N
No more than 3-5 radios at time
5877 2 Rehab 2 Ops (Alt) 430N
No more than 3-5 radios
6021 2 Private 2 622N
No more than 3-5 radios
6025 2 Secure 2 (Encrypted) N/A 4 radios
9950 2 Radio Maintenance / TEST TG 506N
2 Radios

Green Italicized TG's are optional if the radios are exceeding the capacity of the proposed system.

The inter ops TG is the catch-all for all users.

Not all proposed TGs are expected to be in use at the same time.

Can we do it?

Thanks

K2YYN
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Old 06-07-2017, 11:58 AM
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I am interested in this thread as well. I am an old ham (not with an active licence) researching a repeater for a community event.

I am new to digital but I think your capacity query is presumably based on the following:

If any analogue repeating is happening, my understanding is that this will tie up the repeater completely (i.e. both time slots)?
In digital modes, my understanding is the repeater can use two time slots so it can handle two active conversations at any one time?

my understanding is it doesn't matter how many TGs you have but just how busy they are. Depending on use your ratio of users to active talkers is going to vary.

I guess that some channels may have differing attitudes to contention. In my case some channels will accept very little contention, other channels I can stick a load of talk groups together and its not a problem if they have to wait to transmit.

I might be totally wrong of course, but reading this thread so far has been interesting. Like you I also misunderstood where the timeslot was set, thinking it was on the repeater.

Do your channels exist at the moment in any form and can you monitor how busy they are?
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