• To anyone looking to acquire commercial radio programming software:

    Please do not make requests for copies of radio programming software which is sold (or was sold) by the manufacturer for any monetary value. All requests will be deleted and a forum infraction issued. Making a request such as this is attempting to engage in software piracy and this forum cannot be involved or associated with this activity. The same goes for any private transaction via Private Message. Even if you attempt to engage in this activity in PM's we will still enforce the forum rules. Your PM's are not private and the administration has the right to read them if there's a hint to criminal activity.

    If you are having trouble legally obtaining software please state so. We do not want any hurt feelings when your vague post is mistaken for a free request. It is YOUR responsibility to properly word your request.

    To obtain Motorola software see the Sticky in the Motorola forum.

    The various other vendors often permit their dealers to sell the software online (i.e., Kenwood). Please use Google or some other search engine to find a dealer that sells the software. Typically each series or individual radio requires its own software package. Often the Kenwood software is less than $100 so don't be a cheapskate; just purchase it.

    For M/A Com/Harris/GE, etc: there are two software packages that program all current and past radios. One package is for conventional programming and the other for trunked programming. The trunked package is in upwards of $2,500. The conventional package is more reasonable though is still several hundred dollars. The benefit is you do not need multiple versions for each radio (unlike Motorola).

    This is a large and very visible forum. We cannot jeopardize the ability to provide the RadioReference services by allowing this activity to occur. Please respect this.

F50 2-tone

Status
Not open for further replies.

EastMtn

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Messages
4
My FD has a mix of F70 and F50 radios. The 70s will page but the 50s wont. I compared the .icf from the 50 and a 70 that works correctly and everything appears to be set up the same. I can't find any differences on the 2-tone screens or the channel screen. The strange thing is that there is an "All Call" 2 tone set up (dispatch uses this to page every FD and Medic unit with one 2-tone page) and the 50s will page for the All Call but won't page for our department tones. The only difference between the way they are set up is the beep (PiPi/R on All Call, PiRo/R on dept tones). Both are set up 1/2. The All Call is 553.9, 584.8 and our tones are 1395.0, 1433.0. On the channel screen 2Tone RX C.No has 1 and 2 enabled.

The only thing i noticed is that in the model tab the 50 is set LMR (2Tone) and the 70 is set P25 LMR. I'm thinking our problem is somewhere else though because the All Call page does work. Any help would be appreciated.


Note: This is F50 not F50V. Rev 1.0
Using CS-F50 Rev 1.6
 
Last edited:

EastMtn

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Messages
4
jeatock i really appreciate you taking the time to look at our setup. I think I have discovered the problem with our tones. I contacted emergency management to verify our tone frequencies and discovered our 2nd tone is supposed to be 1433.4 not 1433.0. All our radios are set up wrong. I'm not sure why the 70s still page. Maybe they have a wider tolerance for tone detection than the 50s. I'm not able to test this though because when i hooked my radio back up im getting the infamous "No Answer from Tranceiver" message. I verified the COM port and reinstalled my drivers but still can't get it to work. I even took the radio apart and checked the solder connections on the mic port but they look good. Two steps forward, one step back i guess... so frustrated right now.
 

EastMtn

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Messages
4
Update: I re-examined the solder connections and did find them to be cracked. I was able to communicate with another radio and adjusted the second tone for the correct freq and it still would not page. Anyone have any ideas?
 

jeatock

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 9, 2003
Messages
599
Location
090-45-50 W, 39-43-22 N
Tone tolerance should be around 1%; Exact is better, but anything from 1431 to 1435 should fit the tone mask. I see very few consoles (including my own aging Centracoms and Zetron 15's) that stay within a 1 Hz tolerance window. Record the audio off the air and use Audacity to see what it is really doing, including tone duration. You can also download page audio from Broadcastify if the feed is available. Program the decode to the real world, not what 'they' say the console specs are.

Scanning a page channel in 2Tone doesn't work even when the paging channel is priority. A priority scan tells the radio to break away and re-check the priority channel every X seconds. That can interfere with the unbroken tone period specified in 2Tone Code CH Notone timer. If the radio starts to decode on CH 2-1 "PAGE" then priority kicks in and it switches to CH 1-1 "EMR-1" even though the freq is the same the radio re-locks and the tiny drop will invalidate the decode.

The best most perfectly aligned F50 is still not the whippiest scanning radio. I see that the Scan Setting Timer Fast Scan and Slow Scan times are no longer default in either radio. A 0.025 Fast scan it way TOO fast to get a good lock unless the radio is perfectly aligned, the CTCSS/DCS decodes are disabled, and the planets are in optimum positions. Set Scan times back to the default 0.100 and 0.500. 0.070 is the fastest I have ever been able to use reliably.

I normally program a special channel called "QUIET" that is always muted until signaled. Set the radio on that one out of scan and let the radio alert. Night/Off-Duty/Wife approved, and good for pocket carry. I do not use any Rx CTCSS and inhibit Tx to prevent butt dialing. That is much more reliable; All the radio has to do is act like a pager and listen for audio tones on one channel.

Something you can try is to change the memory channel 1-1 line to remove the 114.8 Rx C.Tone. Leave it on Tx. I seem to remember something about 1433 not playing well with 114.8 CTCSS in some radios. It's a harmonic thing.

In the 2Tone Code CH you should change the 1st period to <0.6 and the 2nd to <1.5 seconds. The default seconds means that the radio must hear a full 1.000 seconds of the A tone and 2.000 seconds of the B, something that the console or base station may not be putting on the air. You should try extending the NoTone to 0.160; this is the space between the A and B tones. Again, the console may have issues.

A final trick: 50's with a broken 9-pin can sometimes be coaxed into cloning by flexing the connector forwards or backwards when reading/writing. If it starts cloning, don't breathe until it is done. It's a PITA, but works 90% of the time.

Hope this helps.
 

EastMtn

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Messages
4
Thanks! I'll change the scan times and tone durations and see if that works. At some point I'll try recording audio to see what the console is actually putting out. I don't think anyone every intentionally puts their radios in scan and I honestly don't really see a need for them to scan. I may try disabling scanning to make sure that isn't causing an issue. As for the 1433 interacting with 114.8 CTCSS, I'm not so sure there's anything we can do about that. Asking for a tone change would probably be out of the question. Bottom line, if these tunings don't work, would your recommendation be to dump the F50 for something that is better built and more reliable?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top