New Trunked System L107

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c_snyder

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I wanted to start a new thread in relation to a new system I'm working on to keep it all in one place. SysID is L107. The site local to me is L107-2. It's nexedge 96 listed as J&K Communications, WPPB397. This is what I have so far

Kendallville site is L107-2, tower location is 41.398611 N, -85.252222 W.

RAN 2

LCN's

463.4125 VC -
463.5125 VC-
463.5875 VC-
463.9125 CC- 714


Site Neighbors

L107-1
L107-3
L107-4
L107-5

Still working on LCN's.
 

INDY72

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Nice find... So up there they are running 9600, and the downtown Indy one is an 4800... https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=9872

J&K has a lot of sites covering Central to Northern IN... Wonder if they will tie this one in with the current Indy site once they build this thing out?

Will also have to start an DB build for this system tomorrow as well. :)
 

mtindor

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Kendallville site is L107-2, tower location is 41.398611 N, -85.252222 W.

RAN 2

LCN's

463.4125 VC -
463.5125 VC-
463.5875 VC-
463.9125 CC- 714

I can't guarantee it, but I would be that at least Site 2 is adhering to a standard UHF bandplan.

463.4125 VC- 674 # LCN not verified by anyone yet - I'm speculating
463.5125 VC- 682 # LCN not verified by anyone yet - I'm speculating
463.5875 VC- 688 # LCN not verified by anyone yet - I'm speculating
463.9125 CC- 714

See if your findings verify what I have above for LCNs. If your findings jive with what I've listed above, then they are probably using a standard bandplan for any 450 mhz freqs too.

It can be detrimental to totally depend upon standard bandplan calculations. But I also test out the standard bandplan calculations first to see if a system seems to be using them.


Mike
 

c_snyder

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Site 107-1
RAN 1
452.3875 cc LCN 192
Fort Wayne, IN / 41.110833, -85.195556

neighbors

107-2 - 714
107-3 - 670
107-4 - 556
107-5 - 190

----------

Site 107-2 neighbors

107-1 - 192
107-3 - 670
107-4 - 556
107-5 - 190

----------------

Site 107-4
RAN 4
461.9375 cc LCN 556
Shipshewana, IN / 41.630278, -85.576667

neighbors

107-1 - 192
107-2 - 714
107-3 - 670
107-5 - 190

----------------

Site 107-3
RAN 3
463.3625 cc LCN 670
Angola, IN / 41.682222, -85.001389

neighbors

107-1 - 192
107-2 - 714
107-4 - 556
107-5 - 190

----------------

Site 107-5
RAN 5
452.3625 cc LCN 190
Columbia City, IN / 41.156111, -85.470833

neighbors

107-1 - 192
107-2 - 714
107-3 - 670
107-4 - 556

I'll try to verify LCN's for 107-2 freqs next, then individual site frequency info after that.
 
Last edited:

mtindor

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Site 107-1
RAN 1
452.3875 cc LCN 192
Fort Wayne, IN / 41.110833, -85.195556

neighbors

107-2 - 714
107-3 - 670
107-4 - 556
107-5 - 190

----------

Site 107-2 neighbors

107-1 - 192
107-3 - 670
107-4 - 556
107-5 - 190

----------------

Site 107-4
RAN 4
461.9375 cc LCN 556
Shipshewana, IN / 41.630278, -85.576667

neighbors

107-1 - 192
107-2 - 714
107-3 - 670
107-5 - 190

----------------

Site 107-3
RAN 3
463.3625 cc LCN 670
Angola, IN / 41.682222, -85.001389

neighbors

107-1 - 192
107-2 - 714
107-4 - 556
107-5 - 190

----------------

Site 107-5
RAN 5
452.3625 cc LCN 190
Columbia City, IN / 41.156111, -85.470833

107-1 - 192
107-2 - 714
107-3 - 670
107-4 - 556

I'll try to verify LCN's for 107-2 freqs next, then individual site frequency info after that.

Rgr that. Thank you. IF this system adheres to a standard UHF bandplan for 450 mhz (with or without paging spectrum) and 460 mhz, then the equations for figuring LCN--> Frequency would be these:

#450 mhz based upon .0125 channel spacing

LCN = ((Freq - 450) / .0125) + 1

#460 mhz based upon .0125 channel spacing

LCN = ((Freq - 460) / .0125) + 401

You may or may not have already seen/used said formulas. Just passing them along in case you haven't. they obviously do not apply to every system, but if a system does appear to be using the standard bandplan it should help you out to use the formulas. And, in the case of all of the neighbor lists you have, you'll be able to figure out the current control channel freq for each neighbor (and then perhaps be able to determine other sites based upon FCC licensing as well).

[For anyone reading this] -- Don't count on these formulas to work in all cases. You have to know with some surety that the system is using a standard bandplan before relying upon these.

Mike
 

c_snyder

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Wow, I just noticed that you were actually able to copy all five sites directly. pretty nice!

Mike

Thanks! I was surprised myself. Once I played around with the gain settings they started showing up.

Thank you for the information you posted as well, that's all new to me so i'll read over it and keep it in mind. I'm waiting on some calls to verify those LCN's, Sunday is apparently a slow day.
 

mtindor

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Thanks! I was surprised myself. Once I played around with the gain settings they started showing up.

Thank you for the information you posted as well, that's all new to me so i'll read over it and keep it in mind. I'm waiting on some calls to verify those LCN's, Sunday is apparently a slow day.

Interestingly, according to the JKComm.Com website, they are part of the Digi-talk wide area network. Not hard to believe -- Diga-Talk has a lot of systems (with different system IDs) tied together. I guess J&K is one of them. The link on J&K's page points to Digi-Talk - scroll down to bottom for coverage map. I suspect you've already been there/done that :)

Mike
 

INDY72

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Okay... I will have to think about this one a minute... I guess I could create it as (J and K Communications Diga-Talk) As it has a completely different base SysID than the main Diga-Talk system....
https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=5883

Please go ahead and submit it as such if you have not already, and I will see what I can create that makes sense.
 

c_snyder

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Messages
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Mtindor you were right, those LCN's match up with what I decoded this morning. Also yes, I did glance at that map yesterday out of curiosity. :)

Site 107-2 ran's

463.4125 VC - 674
463.5125 VC- 682
463.5875 VC- 688
463.9125 CC- 714

I'll keep working on individual sites until I can get a master list for my area and then submit it.
 

INDY72

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I am building the basic system now, and will pop it on in next hour. That will give a proper system to sub the data too.
 

INDY72

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OK system is LIVE in DB.. J and R Towers..... I have 2 sites in it thus far.. but it is now able to be built on.

Next up: Parkview Hospital, and that other Hospital System!
 

mtindor

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HUGE Mistake guys... This is NOT J&K this is J&R Towers....

I don't know about it being a HUGE mistake. The system absolutely uses licenses from both J&K and J&R. And J&K and J&R have the same contact information on FCC licenses.

Compare:
J & K : ULS License - Industrial/Business Pool, Trunked License - WPYX411 - J&K Communications Inc
J & R : ULS License - Industrial/Business Pool, Trunked License - WPPD474 - J & R Towers Inc

Of course, it's entirely possible that J & K has sites that are part of Diga-Talk whilst at the same time they could be running their own completely separate system as J &R.

I don't see a problem with you having it listed as J & R -- makes sense as long as it truly isn't linked into Diga-Talk. It's just not a HUGE mistake that anybody confused J & K and J & R. The two companies are obviously tight (if not owned by same people).

J & K Communications, Inc (J&K business in Columbia City IN) lists John Shew II as registered agent
J & R Towers, Inc (A residential home addr in Columbia City IN) lists Jon A Shew as registered agent

So they are definitely connected. Whether or not this system is part of Diga-Talk is something somebody would need to figure out.

In the meantime the database really should be updated with all five sites. C_snyder provided a lot of information, and my buddy caught information for 107-1 and 107-5 as well, which I am going to post next.

Once I post what I've been able to determine from my buddys information, we'll have to mix that with what c_snyder has come up with to nail down some of the site locations.

Mike
 

mtindor

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L107 Sites 1 through 5

System ID L107 in the database should be changed to just 107. On NXDN systems, the preceding R or L should be dropped.

My thoughts:

107-1 Fort wayne
107-2 Kendallville
107-3 Angola
107-4 Wabash or Shipshenawa
107-5 Van Wert OH or Columbia City (probably Columbia City)

Google Map: https://goo.gl/id5fc3

Code:
;From 6-30-2018
;My buddy in East Ohio copied Sites 1/5 direct during tropo event
;System uses standard UHF bandplan
--------------------------------------------------

L107-1  Fort Wayne
RAN:1
451.425   CH:115     # WPSP939 - Fort Wayne
451.55    CH:125     # WPTD404 - Fort Wayne
451.900   CH:153     # WPTD404 - Fort Wayne
452.3875  CH:192  CC # WQAT691 - Fort wayne
452.4375  CH:196  CC # WQAT691 - Fort Wayne
461.4125  CH:514     # WPTD404 - Fort Wayne
    
NL:
 Site 107-2: CC=674 = 463.4125 WPPB397 - Kendallville
 Site 107-2: CC=714 = 463.9125 WPPB397 - Kendallville
 Site 107-3: CC=670 = 463.3625 WPPD474 - Angola
 Site 107-3: CC=696 = 463.6875 WPPD474 - Angola

--------------------------------------------------

L107-4  Wabash or Shipshewana
CC:  461.9375 ; Ch:556 (per neighbor list of Site 5)
RAN:4

WPPD474 Wabash
WPYX411 Shipshewana

--------------------------------------------------

L107-5  Van Wert or Columbia City (see below)
CC:  452.3625 ; Ch: 190
RAN:5

NL:
 Site 107-1: CC=196 = 452.4375 WQAT691 - Fort Wwayne
 Site 107-2: CC=714 = 463.9125 WPPB397 - Kendallville 
 Site 107-3: CC=696 = 463.6875 WPPD474 - Angola
 Site 107-4: CC=556 = 461.9375 WPPD474 - Wabash OR WPYX411 - Shipshewana (see above)

Possible locations for L107-5 452.3625 CC:

WPTK870 Angola
- no
- site 3 is already Angola

WPSI678 Franklin
- no
- too far south
- would not have kendallville or angola as neighbors

WPSI678 Indianapolis
- no
- too far south
- would not have kendallville or angola as neighbors

WPPD474 Van Wert
- could be
- this is on the Ohio line SE of Fort wayne
- could sensibly have sites 1 through 4 as neighbors

WPSH651 Columbia City
- probably - Columbia City is the home of J & K / J & R
- this is SW of Fort Wayne
- could sensibly have sites 1 through 4 as neighbors
 

mtindor

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If you take a look at the link at the bottom of http://www.jkcomm.com where it says Wide Area Wireless Network it links to Diga-Talk's coverage page. And if you look at the coverage area listed for the Diga-Talk coverage provided by JK Communications, it looks exactly like Sites 1 through 5 on System 107.

1. Fort Wayne
2. Kendallville
3. Angola
4. Shipshenawa
5. Columbia City

From what we know via forum posts and what is already in the RRDB, Site 1 Fort Wayne has frequencies from both J & K and J & R licenses. Sites 2 and 3 have J & R licenses. Sites 4 and 5 have J & K licenses.

Since all licenses reference contact email addresses within the domain of jkcomm.com, It would seem more likely that if this system were not part of Diga-Talk it would be called "J and K Communications NEXEDGE96" or something like that. If it is part of Diga-Talk, since it is using a different system ID then perhaps it should be called something like J and K (Diga-Talk). But, then one might want to look further:

The main Diga-Talk coverage page allows you to only click on Wisconsin and Illinois, even though there is a page on Diga-talk that does show J & K Indiana coverage. So maybe the Indiana companies aren't actively part of the wider-area DIga-Talk at this time.

Diga-Talk coverage: Diga-Talk Digital Dispatch Network Coverage Map | Diga-Talk
Diga-Talk JK coverage: Indiana Diga-Talk Dealers and Coverage | Diga-Talk
 

INDY72

Monitoring since 1982, using radios since 1991.
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Site 6 Van Wert OH.... ???? Also most likely tie in set with Steuben Co. IN Angola site as J&K has another site licensed there... SO it probably going to eventually be all part of the bigger Diga Talk family once its all said and done,... I also highly expect all of J&K will be Diga Talk once all of the LTR is converted. But, I do have a question... Can NX48 and NX96 be linked together?
 

mtindor

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Site 6 Van Wert OH.... ???? Also most likely tie in set with Steuben Co. IN Angola site as J&K has another site licensed there

At this time there isn't any suggestion of a site 6 -- There are five known sites, none of them broadcasting a neighbor higher than Site 5. Of course, sure they could add more later.

But, I do have a question... Can NX48 and NX96 be linked together?

If you're asking me, I can't give a definitive answer. I have very high confidence that NX48 and NX96 can be linked -- I'm sure everything exists for that to be possible. I just am not a system maintainer and have no absolute knowledge that it can be done.

Mike
 

mtindor

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J and K Comm / J & R Towers NXDN Trunked Licenses

For anyone who may be interested in trying to figure out all of the active frequencies for the five known sites, or for those who might want to see what/if any type of activity is occurring at other site locations with NXDN emissions on their licenses, below is a list of J & K / J & R trunked licenses with NXDN emissions.

Every site listed in the DB likely has more active frequencies than what are shown in the DB. But that is simply because nobody has submitted information regarding additional frequencies in use on those sites. If you have a Uniden scanner, you might want to consider programming all frequencies on licenses in as a specific site (such as Fort Wayne) and then run LCN Finder on that site during the busiest time of day to see what LCNs you can come up with.

At any rate, below are the licenses (currently known in FCC records) with NXDN emissions.

Site 1 - Fort Wayne, IN (Allen)

WPSP939 (J & R Towers)
451.425
451.725
452.200
452.45
452.7375
453.0125
461.3875
463.7375
464.6375


WNYN376 (J & K Communications)
461.300
461.900
462.15
463.275
464.275


WQAT691 (J & K Communications)
452.125
452.3875
452.4375
461.125
462.400
463.95


WPTD404 (J & K Communications)
451.55
451.900
451.9625
461.4125
461.800
462.100
463.45
464.375


Site 2 - Kendallville, IN (Noble)

WPPB397 (J & R Towers)
463.4125
463.5125
463.5875
463.9125


Site 3 - Angola, IN (Steuben)

WPPD474 (J & R Towers)
451.8375
463.3625
463.6875
463.7625
463.8625


WPTK870 (J & K Communications)
452.3625
463.5625
464.7875


Site 4 - Shipshenawa, IN (LaGrange)

WPYX411 (J & K Communications)
461.9375
463.5375
463.6375
464.9375


Site 5 - Columbia City, IN (Whitley)

WPSH651 (J & K Communications)
452.3625
452.7375
461.575
463.4375
464.725
464.95



New Paris, IN (Elkhart)

WPTK870 (J & K Communications)
451.225
461.85
463.2875


Portland, IN (Jay)

WPPD474 (J & R Towers)
451.8375
461.9375
463.4625
463.7875
464.8625


Spencerville, IN (De Kalb)

WPTK870 (J & K Communications)
461.100
461.775
462.05
463.3875
463.4625
463.5625


Van Wert, OH (Van Wert)

WPPD474 (J & R Towers)
451.8625
452.0125
452.2125
452.3625
461.7375


Wabash, IN (Wabash)

WPPD474 (J & R Towers)
452.2125
461.9375
463.4625
463.7875
464.8625


Warsaw, IN (Kosciusko)

WPPB397 (J & R Towers)
462.1125
463.4125
463.7625
464.4125
464.8375


Mike
 
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