When will DMR, 1327, OpenSky etc follow P25 to scanners?

[Baylink]

There are three components to scannability:

1) Audio modulation
2) Trunking control format
3) Encryption.

Without getting another dead-horse-beating started on point 3, what are everyone's opinions as to whether and when we'll see Uniden and GRE (or maybe AOR?) start dabbling in trying to receive other permutations of points 1 and 2?

 

[Comint]

There are three components to scannability:

1) Audio modulation
2) Trunking control format
3) Encryption.

Without getting another dead-horse-beating started on point 3, what are everyone's opinions as to whether and when we'll see Uniden and GRE (or maybe AOR?) start dabbling in trying to receive other permutations of points 1 and 2?

When there is a big enough market in the US for the particular protocol.

For example: While there is some MPT1327 in the US, it is insignificant in comparison to the Big Two (Motorla and EDACS), so why would they bother. Furthermore, DMR is being promoted in Europe, as the 'digital upgrade path' for existing users of MPT1327, in that area, so why outlay R&D costs for a Protocol that is being superseded.

--
Comint

 

[jim202]

There are three components to scannability:

1) Audio modulation
2) Trunking control format
3) Encryption.

Without getting another dead-horse-beating started on point 3, what are everyone's opinions as to whether and when we'll see Uniden and GRE (or maybe AOR?) start dabbling in trying to receive other permutations of points 1 and 2?

To follow along with the other comments, why does the topic of encryption keep coming up? That is a
dead subject. You will NEVER SEE AN ENCRYPTION DECODER in a scanner. It just will not
happen. Why do you think that the agencies have been going to more and more use of it. There
is a federal law that makes it a crime to decode encrypted signals not intended for you. Your talking
jail time here.

 

[ausscan]

MPT1327 is MASSIVE in Australia. Plans to move systems, especially state wide coverage systems are far away. The only way we can track these are being tied to a PC.

 

[Baylink]

To follow along with the other comments, why does the topic of encryption keep coming up? That is a
dead subject. You will NEVER SEE AN ENCRYPTION DECODER in a scanner. It just will not
happen. Why do you think that the agencies have been going to more and more use of it. There
is a federal law that makes it a crime to decode encrypted signals not intended for you. Your talking
jail time here.

ATTENTION, JIM:

There are no other comments here to "follow along with"; I explicitly asked *not* to address encryption, cause, y'know, not an idiot here... and it's "you're".

Let us, please, *not* address encryption, as I requested, cause I'd prefer more light than heat from this thread.

 

[Baylink]

MPT1327 is MASSIVE in Australia. Plans to move systems, especially state wide coverage systems are far away. The only way we can track these are being tied to a PC.

And that's why the fact that DMR is billed as an upgrade path out of 1327 doesn't affect my perception of the issue: absent some regulatory requirement for the upgrade, the installation of a trunking system is *at least* a 15 year capital expenditure, more like 20, and depending on what the economy does, maybe more like 30.

"What's installed now" seems the pertinent point for R&D investment, especially since with newer scanner chassis', it likely is just new code.

 

[talkpair]

When will DMR, 1327, OpenSky etc follow P25 to scanners?

I would say OpenSky will never be made available in a scanner, due to the low percentage of public safety using it to begin with.

If all OpenSky systems are as unreliable as Milwaukee's, it could end up being a tech-support nightmare for any scanner manufacturer that sells such a radio.

 

[n5ims]

OpenSky will probably never be in scanners since it's extreamly doubtful that they'll license the technology to scanner manufacturers (especially since they market it as non-scannable). Without a license, the scanner makers won't add it as a feature due to the legal issues and associated costs with doing so.

MPT-1327 is an open standard and could probably easily be added if the scanner makers see a market for it. Since it's quite popular in Europe and Australia, it may be added for them if the market is there and since the US models are similar, it would probably be in them as well to reduce costs.

DMR (or dPMR) appears to also be an open standard (although I don't have any experience or much knowledge about it) and if so could be added like MPT-1327 if the scanner makers see a market for it.

What may help get the open standards formats added is to let the scanner makers know that there's actually a market for it. This can be done by e-mailing them and asking about it, asking in person if you see them in a booth at a Hamfest or other convention, or even returning a registration card for your scanner (if they include one) that includes the request in a comment section.

 

[RayAir]

(Agree with above poster): If Open Sky doesn't work reliably for the people using it then imagine the nightmare of trying to make a scanner for it. The scanner manufacturer would probably be issuing software patches and fixes for it every couple of weeks just like Harris (and it still wouldn't work right).

What a potential PR nightmare.

 

[ausscan]

MPT-1327 is an open standard and could probably easily be added if the scanner makers see a market for it. Since it's quite popular in Europe and Australia, it may be added for them if the market is there and since the US models are similar, it would probably be in them as well to reduce costs.

Since they don't even sell a digital scanner here in Australia any more (all new ones must be imported), I hate to say it but I can't see it happening.

 

[radioman2001]

Why don't they sell digital scanners in Australia? I am not being difficult, I just would like to know, is it a law or something?

 

[W2NJS]

As far as DMR goes, it's no longer just a "European" mode; there are hundreds and hundreds of commercial users/systems in the US now. And the reason that P25 is so common is that APCO and the Feds made it their standard years ago, which effectively shuts out many other modes for all practical purposes, especially in PS systems.

 

[ausscan]

Why don't they sell digital scanners in Australia? I am not being difficult, I just would like to know, is it a law or something?

No law, just that certain manufactures have decided to pull out of the market and no one has decided to step in and take over. The major difference is that our 800mhz trunking is smack bang in the middle of the cellular block.

 

[commscanaus]

No law, just that certain manufactures have decided to pull out of the market and no one has decided to step in and take over. The major difference is that our 800mhz trunking is smack bang in the middle of the cellular block.

There are a couple of major upgrades from analog to P25 taking place here in the next few years.
Our entire state fire authority is switching to P25 digital and the NSW GRN is migrating to P25.
This change will affect thousands of emergency agency employees and volunteers, many of which have scanners that allow them to follow emergency traffic during incidents.
Uniden has decided to pull out of the local market at a time when demand for digital scanners will only start to increase. They initially killed their local sales by the ridiculous pricing (AUD$999 for a 996T) when they released a local version of the 396T and 996T.
Stocks were heavily reduced by local retailers and sold off at cost (as little as AUD$250) to move the once overpriced units.
Their marketing strategy is poor to say the least.
Oh- well, it is only a TINY portion of the market isn't it Uniden.

Hello GRE??

Commscanaus.

 

[phillmobile]

As per a post up the page mpt1327 is the most used trunking system on the planet, and in my own opinion i really dont see everyone going to digital instead of it, lets face it the audio quality is worse and the repeaters can not cover the distance simply because of the way they work, not only that but how would i make any money? my mpt1327 system is on the tower it will work forever and if it does not then i have a plenty more repeaters to swap out, i buy second hand radios for 20 / 30 dollars each and charge 15 dollars (equivilant per a month) how can i spend 500 dollars on a mototrbo radio and the rent it out for 15 dollars the world is on its arse people will not pay they just go to cellular it could never make any money, sorry if this is of topic but it seems we are having digital rammed down our throat like it or not.
Land Mobile October 2011

So i see no reason why mpt1327 should not be on scanners i think its a great idea, i would buy 2

 

[Muxlow]

TRBO is starting to pop up all over the place in Ontario Canada here, all the LTR systems have now switched to TRBO. In the last 2 years i can count about 12 switch overs in my city alone, plus another 30 or so with a 150km of me. A connect plus system that covers almost 500km's aswell. Few local police/fire services use it now too. NXDN is out here too..but maybe only 2 trunked systems that iv seen. Everything els is TRBO. So i would have a huge use for a scanner that could track Connect Plus and Capacity Plus