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TRS capablity

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newsnick175

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So trunking systems can have thousands of talk groups, and talk groups can thousands of users. Just how does a system designer determine how much talk time a talk group can handle before other users are bumped off to higher priority users? How many frequencies must a system have to handle high volume demands? Is there an argument that some police operations are too busy for a trunking system to handle?
 

krokus

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Being too busy for a trunking system would be too busy for any radio system. A trunking system tends to help keep order in the comms, by keeping people from stepping on each other.

If any one radio assignment is that congested, then it is time for more assets. (More talkgroups, maybe more repeaters added to the system.)

That being said, special operations are good with low power, conventional radio. No need make connection with a tower, no handshake negotiation time, etc... (Same for interior firefighting.)
 
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zz0468

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So trunking systems can have thousands of talk groups, and talk groups can thousands of users. Just how does a system designer determine how much talk time a talk group can handle before other users are bumped off to higher priority users? How many frequencies must a system have to handle high volume demands? Is there an argument that some police operations are too busy for a trunking system to handle?

Determining the required number of channels is based on anticipated traffic load. There are some traffic models borrowed from the telephone industry that can predict circuit capacity requiments (like Erlang b). What the system designer then has to do is find a reasonable compromise between cost (more channels) vs. the probability of blocking or queing.

No, there is no valid arguement that some operations could be too busy for trunking, at least in generalities. If the anticipated traffic is going to be that high, then more capacity is called for. If a system frequently becomes too busy, it's undersized, and the traffic modeling formulas will show it. The design goal is usually to allow some small amount of queing at some extreme busy hour level of traffic. Otherwise, too much capacity is too expensive, and not enough causes queing before the busy hour is reached.

Look up Erlang traffic theory to get an idea on how capacity is calculated. Expect it to be dry, somewhat abstract, and very complex.
 
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newsnick175

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Ok, so if cost is no object, then a trunking system should never bog down under the traffic load. Additional frequencies and repeater sites are the cure to traffic congestion!
I guess that would hold true for conventional systems as well.
 

n5ims

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Ok, so if cost is no object, then a trunking system should never bog down under the traffic load. Additional frequencies and repeater sites are the cure to traffic congestion!
I guess that would hold true for conventional systems as well.

Yes and no. There's a limit to the number of channels a trunking system will support. While this limit varies according to what specific type of system generally the limit is about 20 channels per system. This limit may allow hundreds (if not more) independent talkgroups, but no more than 19 (19 talk channels + 1 control channel) can be transmitting at any one point in time. Once one stops transmitting, another talkgroup can now utilize that available frequency pair so it may appear to the user that many more are available and active at any one time.

Unless you have some very long winded people (or one fool that likes to play DJ and transmits songs from his iPod over a channel) the system can easily handle many more active channels than there are actual voice paths on that system. Often these systems have a priority assigned to each channel so when no voice paths are available for a high priority talkgroup, a low priority one will be bumped off to allow the high priority one to takeover the channel. One example may be the PD may have a high priority given to their channels while the library cleaning crew may have a very low priority given to theirs. When the system is full, your library radio will beep (telling the user that they lost signal) and the PD officer will get the channel.

With a well designed system, this channel takeover will be a very rare event. In most cases, there should be an available channel. If this isn't a rare event, the system managers should look at the system to see how they can split it up to prevent or at least reduce the number of "bonks". Perhaps even adding a second system so the users are split up among them to help spread the channels around. If you look at some of the large state-wide systems, you may see multiple sites in a fairly small area (but a highly populated one) while others may have only a single site for a large rural area. This is often to keep the many users in the urban area from getting "bonked" while the rural users probably never do.

Conventional systems are always one frequency (or frequency pair if it uses a repeater) per channel. Every user on that channel uses the same frequency. If they need to move to a different channel, they will also move to a different frequency. Trunking systems break the one frequency per channel design and the system and user radios translate the talkgroup request into a temporary frequency assignment on that system. Once the transmission is complete, the system returns that talkgroup into an idle state and allows that frequency to be assigned to another talkgroup when needed.
 
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zz0468

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...There's a limit to the number of channels a trunking system will support. While this limit varies according to what specific type of system generally the limit is about 20 channels per system...

Actually, 28 channels per system. I know of one large entity that has a 28 channel, a 21 channel, a 10 channel, and a 12 channel system with overlapping coverage that spreads the traffic load across 10 law enforcement agencies, as many cities, fire, and public works agencies.

And with that much capacity, I've seen the systems busy out. It's a very rare event that tells me the system planners knew what they were up against.
 

KevinC

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To add to the above 2 posts, even if you have Phase 2 TDMA the call limit is 28. So if you have a 21 channel system and TDMA you won't get 40 talk-paths ( 20 voice channels x 2 + 1 control channel), you only get 28 talk-paths maximum.
 

GTR8000

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Edit: Kevin beat me to it :D
 
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KAA951

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Ok, so if cost is no object, then a trunking system should never bog down under the traffic load. Additional frequencies and repeater sites are the cure to traffic congestion!
I guess that would hold true for conventional systems as well.

I have to point out that, theoretically, what you say is correct. However, the limiting factor at some point becomes the availability of frequency spectrum for all the different repeaters. This is why trunking is so attractive (and TDMA) as it uses the available spectrum in a much more efficient manner than dedicating a pair of frequencies to each user.
 

newsnick175

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It seams that large cities like NYC and LA are holding on to convention ops. Is it mainly the expense of a change over or do they just "feel better" with conventional ops?
 
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