MotoTRBO Questions...

[Darkstar350]

I have a couple questions regarding the wonderful technology known as MotoTRBO...

First - does a frequency absolutely have to be licensed for the "DMR Emission" (7K60FXE) to be able to use MotoTRBO radios on said frequency? In other words - if the frequency is licensed for standard analog voice such as 11K2F3E then "legally" would the use of DMR be allowed on that freq?

Also can a set of TRBO frequencies operate as a trunk system even if it is not licensed for such?
For example: Lets just say "Agency A" has a IG or PW conventional license for the frequencies 460.1000 460.2000 460.3000 and 460.4000
They are all licensed with the 7K60FXE emission but again it still is a non-trunked license
Now lets say 460.1000 and 460.2000 act as control channels constantly transmitting data,etc
Could this be some type of loop hole with MotoTRBO being that there are multiple slots on a single frequency and whatnot?...

 

[mmckenna]

Probably not a good idea on either part.

While DMR will fit inside a 12.5KHz channel, it's important to realize that how it plays with other co-channel users isn't always a good thing. There were some issues a while back where some Trbo systems were causing issues with others.

As for doing trunking, again, this is an issue with co-channel users. Trunking can be much higher channel loading, and this can impact how other licenses use the channels, even if they are outside the area.

At minimum you should be talking to a frequency coordinator about this. Getting the channels properly licensed shouldn't be a big deal. Changing emission designators isn't necessarily a problem or costly.

 

[Voyager]

Let me answer that with a lesser example.

The FCC considers it a violation to use 11K2F3E modulation on a frequency licensed for 16K0F3E. The ironic part about that is that if you simply talk softer on 16K0F3E, you could be effectively transmitting 11K2F3E, but the rules are the rules.

I'm certain any mode that differs by more than just the deviation would also be considered a violation. That said, I'm sure there are many examples of people using TRBO on frequencies not licensed for 7K60FXE.

For those who use both 11K2F3E and 7K60FXE, they must be licensed for both from a technical/legal standpoint.

 

[Darkstar350]

Yeah i figured as much - another thing is that maybe some people think that its okay to use DMR on a frequency that is licensed for 11K2F3E just because it is narrowband - but that would be narrowband analog voice...
As far as the trunking - i guess that may be more of a loophole thing due to the nature of DMR whereas you can have say groups 10001 on slot 1 and group 20001 on slot 2 all on the same frequency,etc...

I am not applying for a license or anything myself and if i did i would make sure that i was properly licensed but i may have noticed certain agencies in my area using TRBO on a non TRBO freq. and whatnot...

 

[WA0CBW]

It is possible to license a frequency for multiple emission modes (i.e. analog and digital).
BB

 

[Voyager]

Absolutely - in fact with as many as you like. I've seen some that have 10+ emission codes that cover analog, DMR, NXDN, and P25. I guess they don't know which mode they want to use, so they simply license them all.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

As far as trunking goes, one could technically utilize pseudo-trunking (which may not a Motorola feature currently but is with Simoco and Hytera) on a conventional license.

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[JRayfield]

Motorola 'invented' so-called "pseudo-trunking". It's called Capacity Plus and it easily works on one repeater (trunking the two slots). It also works with multiple repeaters, too.

I've seen at least one Hytera dealer that likes to claim that Hytera 'invented' pseudo-trunking, but Capacity Plus was out before Hytera did their 'pseudo-trunking'. His claim is not true.

John Rayfield, Jr.

As far as trunking goes, one could technically utilize pseudo-trunking (which may not a Motorola feature currently but is with Simoco and Hytera) on a conventional license.

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[mikewazowski]

Motorola 'invented' so-called "pseudo-trunking". It's called Capacity Plus and it easily works on one repeater (trunking the two slots). It also works with multiple repeaters, too.

Didn't Motorola just buy the technology from Trident?

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Motorola 'invented' so-called "pseudo-trunking". It's called Capacity Plus and it easily works on one repeater (trunking the two slots). It also works with multiple repeaters, too.



I've seen at least one Hytera dealer that likes to claim that Hytera 'invented' pseudo-trunking, but Capacity Plus was out before Hytera did their 'pseudo-trunking'. His claim is not true.



John Rayfield, Jr.

I was not aware that cap plus could be used with a single repeater. Good info to know. I'm assuming you'd still need all of the cap plus licenses on the subscribers though, correct.


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[JRayfield]

No. You're thinking of Connect Plus,which was designed by a combination of Motorola engineers and Trident engineers. Motorola Solutions then bought Trident.

Capacity Plus is an invention of Motorola Solutions.

John Rayfield, Jr.

Didn't Motorola just buy the technology from Trident?

 

[JRayfield]

Cap Plus is standard in all radios except for the XPR3000 series and the XPR2500.

John

I was not aware that cap plus could be used with a single repeater. Good info to know. I'm assuming you'd still need all of the cap plus licenses on the subscribers though, correct.


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[Project25_MASTR]

Cap Plus is standard in all radios except for the XPR3000 series and the XPR2500.

John

Good to know. Thanks.h

 

[Karl-NVW]

There is a difference between "Can I ..." and "Do the FCC Rules allow ..." (or substitute name of regulatory agency of your home country). If you intend to operate mixed mode with both analog and MotoTRBO in the USA, the FCC Rules require you to modify the existing system license to show both emission designators. That automatically requires buying a new frequency coordination as well.