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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2017, 12:17 PM
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The end has been near for a long time in the scanning hobby! If you were around when the first trunked systems came out, the end was near! If you were around when the first digital P25 came out? The end was near!

The end came to our friends in England though. TETRA killed the hobby for them.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2017, 1:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC3ECJ View Post
Digital is crap in environments with wind and noisy machinery.

It is also problematic for security and other emergency personnel in a fire situation.
Security needs a simplex analog option.
Not with modern DSP and active noise cancelling technologies.
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Old 08-31-2017, 1:53 PM
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Yeah, I will put my scanners and SDRs on the trash heap with the newspapers and books. smh
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2017, 1:57 PM
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Originally Posted by MTS2000des View Post
Products like this make converged networks affordable and scalable and building a multi-site, multi-mode converged LMR system a reality, with the basic call processing subsystem based on industry standard SIP, so porting it or integrating it to LTE or any SIP based system a breeze.
Very interesting link. thank you for sharing that.
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Old 08-31-2017, 4:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayn1n32008 View Post
Not with modern DSP and active noise cancelling technologies.
Which radios actually feature this?
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2017, 4:51 PM
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Most modern rigs. My NX200 does extremely well in high noise using NXDN, XPR radios, with recent firmware, and noise cancelling speaker mics as well. The APX series portables use dual microphones with DSP, not a Harris user, but likely the XG series use something similar. Kenwood offers active noise cancelling speaker Mics for the modern TK/NX portables that use the multi pin connector. This is not the infancy of P25, with Astro Sabers and XTS3000 radios any more. Noise reduction has come a very long way since even the XTS5000/2500/1500 series hit the market.


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Old 08-31-2017, 5:50 PM
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WiFi? Microcells? 300 mw subscriber units? Sure, it'll work in cities. Until the word "mission critical" comes into play, like down in Houston where those microcells would be under water, and there IS NO reliable infrastructure left running.

You can have all kinds of fancy gadgets, but when your voice communications is gone, dead, not happening, and you can't switch channels on your high power mobile/portable and talk simplex, decisions change real quick.

Technology is great, but it is really hard to beat LMR.
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Old 08-31-2017, 5:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC3ECJ View Post
Which radios actually feature this?
Pricey ones, too expensive to throw away when it doesn't work!

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Old 08-31-2017, 9:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12dbsinad View Post
Sure, it'll work in cities. Until the word "mission critical" comes into play, like down in Houston where those microcells would be under water, and there IS NO reliable infrastructure left running.
Well, I hear that Houston's prime site went under water. So, how does that fare when you're prime/master site gets disabled? You get failsoft, or nothing at all.

Anything under water is hosed. No brainer. Even those Randy Rescue ARES folks are dead in the water (no joke) when infrastructure is full of water. Ham repeaters hose up just as well as a GTR8000 six pack stack or a Huawei LTE base radio (though the wide adaptation of RRUs being tower top mounted sure does make them safe from water).

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12dbsinad View Post
You can have all kinds of fancy gadgets, but when your voice communications is gone, dead, not happening, and you can't switch channels on your high power mobile/portable and talk simplex, decisions change real quick.

Technology is great, but it is really hard to beat LMR.
I've been listening to Zello talk groups including "Texas Search and Rescue Non-Medical Emergency" for a few hours. Guess what, it's working as well if not better than most LMR is. No one has keyed up with any BER filled transmissions, voice quality far exceeds any narrow band LMR, and the cost is...wait for it...FREE.

Are there cell sites down. Yup. But IP routing and mutliple networks are handling it. No $100,000 rip off overpriced ISSI routers needed at every stinking site or $500 a piece license fees for subscribers or talk groups.

LMR the way it is being sold today needs to evolve or it will be done. The writing is on the wall.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2017, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTS2000des View Post
Well, I hear that Houston's prime site went under water. So, how does that fare when you're prime/master site gets disabled? You get failsoft, or nothing at all.

Anything under water is hosed. No brainer. Even those Randy Rescue ARES folks are dead in the water (no joke) when infrastructure is full of water. Ham repeaters hose up just as well as a GTR8000 six pack stack or a Huawei LTE base radio (though the wide adaptation of RRUs being tower top mounted sure does make them safe from water).
I think you are missing my point. Obviously, bad things happen when any part of a system is full of water.. I was trying to compare the solely based infrastructure dependent "solutions of the future" to something that can still work without, which in this case is LMR. You would be surprised on how many rescue teams are using nationwide tac channels/simplex , in Texas.




Quote:
Originally Posted by MTS2000des View Post
LMR the way it is being sold today needs to evolve or it will be done. The writing is on the wall.
But you can't blame the technology for this. If you think LTE will "fill the gap" for reliability for mission critical voice comms, you've got another thing coming..
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2017, 10:37 PM
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Is that true, Houston prime site down?

It has always bugged me that simulcast systems rely on a central control point. With P25 , GPS and IP, the voting and simulcast functions could all be distributed. No need for a prime site. I have mentioned this to Harris and Motorola systems engineers in the past and I think they missed my point. There seems to be this concept of "control" that the manufacturers dislike any concept where the remote sites are too capable.

The current simulcast architectures are too fragile in that respect.

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Old 09-01-2017, 12:41 AM
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This is why I have 100w radios in my truck out here in Nevada, and an Iridium mobile unit. 100+ miles on some roads with NO services, NO cellular, and mostly, no other traffic for hours at a time. Oh yeah, and out here, that site you need to talk on is 50 or more miles away, line of sight.
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Old 09-01-2017, 7:55 AM
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The end is near with "near" being a relative term. Near as in dinosaurs, yep, blink of an eye. Near as in how long 2 way radio has been around? Nope, long way away. Unless Uncle Sam hands out a lot more money, it will be decades before there is widespread use of LTE for public safety voice communications.

If you compare it to the 800 MHz rebanding "3 year" project, here we are 10 years past that projected completion date and still not done, I figure if they run the LTE project the same way, it will be 30 years or so before my Uniden Trunktracker 15 is no good.

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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2017, 7:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by com501 View Post
This is why I have 100w radios in my truck out here in Nevada, and an Iridium mobile unit. 100+ miles on some roads with NO services, NO cellular, and mostly, no other traffic for hours at a time. Oh yeah, and out here, that site you need to talk on is 50 or more miles away, line of sight.
Low band vhf is still a good option for rural departments wit little or no infrastructure but not many manufacturers want to support that now.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2017, 9:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC3ECJ View Post
Low band vhf is still a good option for rural departments wit little or no infrastructure but not many manufacturers want to support that now.

Except that low band portables have dummy loads for antennas...


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Old 09-01-2017, 12:09 PM
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Except that low band portables have dummy loads for antennas...
You think they are that good? I was thinking more isotropic actually.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2017, 12:11 PM
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Default You do realize the end is near, right? (Conventional and trunked radio)

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You think they are that good? I was thinking more isotropic actually.


Either or. There is a reason VHF-hi is the preferred band for fire ground.


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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2017, 2:32 PM
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Quote:
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You think they are that good? I was thinking more isotropic actually.
Entropic maybe? Isotropic would be an improvement!

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Old 09-01-2017, 3:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayn1n32008 View Post
Except that low band portables have dummy loads for antennas...


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Mobile repeaters? Telescoping antennas?
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 09-01-2017, 3:11 PM
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Quote:
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Telescoping antennas?


*facepalm


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