APCO-25 Encrypted?

[rankar]

Wow, have things changed. It's been about a seven year hiatus for me from the hobby and it's amazing how things have changed. I tried to tune into my local town and found out that they moved to APCO-25 encrypted on the rr database.

If it says APCO-25 (encrypted) in the description here on the rr database, does that mean I virtually have no chance of being able to listen in?

Thanks all

 

[n4voxgill]

APCO-25 means digital. If you do not have a digital capable scanner then you will not receive voice communications. Digital is not the same as encrypted. Digital systems may or may not be encrypted. If the system you want to monitor is digital, that means even with a digital scanner you will not hear them if they have encryption enabled.

 

[rdale]

If it says ENCRYPTED then no, you will never be able to hear them.

 

[rankar]

That figures...

Thanks guys for the replies. That's what I figured. Well, I'll still upgrade to an APCO-25 capable scanner anyway. I knew my original Icom R-1 would see it's usefulness slowly come to an end...

 

[seamusg]

Wow, have things changed. It's been about a seven year hiatus for me from the hobby and it's amazing how things have changed. I tried to tune into my local town and found out that they moved to APCO-25 encrypted on the rr database.

If it says APCO-25 (encrypted) in the description here on the rr database, does that mean I virtually have no chance of being able to listen in?

Thanks all

What system are you trying?

 

[rankar]

I was looking at the Wilton, CT (Fairfield County) PD system and noticed it was indicating an APCO-25 (encrypted) system. I'm just starting research into digital/apco compatible scanners and receivers. So far, I've only read about the popular Bearcat ones... is there something you all suggest?

 

[seamusg]

I was looking at the Wilton, CT (Fairfield County) PD system and noticed it was indicating an APCO-25 (encrypted) system. I'm just starting research into digital/apco compatible scanners and receivers. So far, I've only read about the popular Bearcat ones... is there something you all suggest?

It's not a system, it's conventional. The database here shows the PD Dispatch (encrypted)
and PD (encrypted), APCO-25 does not have anything to do with being encrypted. the database is also showing Fire as APCO25 but not encrypted. APCO25 is just another mode like AM or FM. APCO25 makes encrypting easier since it's digital and all you have to do is move the bits around. If it is encrypted there is no scanner that can decode it. Digital encryption on a digital scanner sounds like R2D2. It sounds like your PD doesn't want anyone to hear them.

 

[dizwiz]

Hopefully someone will crack this someday (Regardless of the legality)

The experts say it cant be done, but I imagine if someone smart enough 'ganked a police encrypted unit or a key coder machine they could figure out the AES encryption method for that system.

 

[mancow]

Wouldn't bet on it, the keys are not retrievable from the KVL or crypto modules once entered. The process involves more than just a simple key being inserted down a wire. There are several levels of error checking and testing that's done during the key loading process that the equipment performs all on its own.

You should keep an out out for an old T-30XX series Motorola KVL manual at a hamfest some time. The service manuals break it all down into stages and describe all the different functions that happen during the process. It's really fairly complicated and that was 1980's technology. It's kind of interesting.


It's not going to happen on a level that will benefit a scanner user. There's always the possibility of Government key breaking capability (NSA) etc... but what good does that do you?

Even if by some miracle it was accomplished they would take your doors off its hinges quicker than hell if the capability was ever known.

 

[richardc63]

It's not a system, it's conventional. The database here shows the PD Dispatch (encrypted)
and PD (encrypted), APCO-25 does not have anything to do with being encrypted. the database is also showing Fire as APCO25 but not encrypted. APCO25 is just another mode like AM or FM. APCO25 makes encrypting easier since it's digital and all you have to do is move the bits around. If it is encrypted there is no scanner that can decode it. Digital encryption on a digital scanner sounds like R2D2. It sounds like your PD doesn't want anyone to hear them.

Well no, sorry, APCO25 is NOT a "mode" like AM or FM. APCO25 is a US developed Open Standard that permits manufacturers to design & manufacture digitally modulated radios that can be configured in either conventional or trunking (using FDMA) configurations. The digital modulation type used is C4FM- that is the "mode".

Cheers,


Richard

 

[N_Jay]

Well no, sorry, APCO25 is NOT a "mode" like AM or FM. APCO25 is a US developed Open Standard that permits manufacturers to design & manufacture digitally modulated radios that can be configured in either conventional or trunking (using FDMA) configurations. The digital modulation type used is C4FM- that is the "mode".

Cheers,


Richard

Well, lets just invent a personal definition for the word "mode" and tell others they are wrong. :roll:
mode [ mōd ] (plural modes)
noun
Definitions:
1. manner or form: a way, manner, or form, e.g. a way of doing something, or the form in which something exists
2. style or fashion: a style or fashion, e.g. in art or in dress
3. machine setting: a setting or function on a machine such as a computer
4. type of automatic behavior: a way of behaving, especially one that is instinctive, familiar, or habitual ( informal humorous )
in work mode
:roll: :wink: :lol:

 

[rankar]

and to make it even more frustrating, my town went from having its police band on analog 46MHz for the longest time (actually, I believe there were a couple of freqs between 46 and 49MHz) which you could listen to on almost anything short of a transistor radio tied to a cold water pipe to an encrypted APCO system. geez.

 

[Southtown800]

it seems that everyone is going to be or are already Apco, i hear there is a huge overhaul that is going to go on to help with interoperability, i use to live in wallingford and i worked at the old fairfield hills, up there in newtown they use VHF narrowband, so some scanners can't pick them up fully because of the split in the frequency, and as you can see the ct state police have a mamoth system which i hear will soon be encrypted,

 

[lake-hamilton]

Apco-25 Encryption

I was wondering using the bcd396t model scanner what P-25 APCO encryption sounds like? Does it sound like a motorboat engine making a bunch of racket or do you not hear anything? If the scanner detects if its encrypted does it just skip the talkgroup and not make any noise at all? The reason i ask is because I can hear the dispatcher but not any users.

 

[BaLa]

I was wondering using the bcd396t model scanner what P-25 APCO encryption sounds like? Does it sound like a motorboat engine making a bunch of racket or do you not hear anything? If the scanner detects if its encrypted does it just skip the talkgroup and not make any noise at all? The reason i ask is because I can hear the dispatcher but not any users.

The 396t is actually SUPPOSED to ignore/skip enryption.
It does not always work.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=KP78WVMY



btw.....nice bump

 

[lake-hamilton]

Apco-25 Encryption

Well in a way thats good that the bcd396t ignores encrypted communications but in a way bad because theres some talkgroups thats unknown if there active. Is there any software to dl to figure out if the channels are being overidden by motorboats or is there a particular digital scanner out there that don't ignore encrypted signals being broadcasted on p-25. Too bad there isn't a on/off ignore encrypt feature on the bcd396t.

 

[WayneH]

I was wondering using the bcd396t...

Please don't hijack old threads to ask a question which should have been asked in the Uniden forum.