• To anyone looking to acquire commercial radio programming software:

    Please do not make requests for copies of radio programming software which is sold (or was sold) by the manufacturer for any monetary value. All requests will be deleted and a forum infraction issued. Making a request such as this is attempting to engage in software piracy and this forum cannot be involved or associated with this activity. The same goes for any private transaction via Private Message. Even if you attempt to engage in this activity in PM's we will still enforce the forum rules. Your PM's are not private and the administration has the right to read them if there's a hint to criminal activity.

    If you are having trouble legally obtaining software please state so. We do not want any hurt feelings when your vague post is mistaken for a free request. It is YOUR responsibility to properly word your request.

    To obtain Motorola software see the Sticky in the Motorola forum.

    The various other vendors often permit their dealers to sell the software online (i.e., Kenwood). Please use Google or some other search engine to find a dealer that sells the software. Typically each series or individual radio requires its own software package. Often the Kenwood software is less than $100 so don't be a cheapskate; just purchase it.

    For M/A Com/Harris/GE, etc: there are two software packages that program all current and past radios. One package is for conventional programming and the other for trunked programming. The trunked package is in upwards of $2,500. The conventional package is more reasonable though is still several hundred dollars. The benefit is you do not need multiple versions for each radio (unlike Motorola).

    This is a large and very visible forum. We cannot jeopardize the ability to provide the RadioReference services by allowing this activity to occur. Please respect this.

Radio Programming License

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pepper33

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I am wanting to start programming radios and selling them. I do not have a business yet or LLC. What are the steps i have to take. Is there a programmer license i must purchase?

The types of radios are the APCO 25 Phase 1 Digital Radios
 

Voyager

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No such license exists. But there may be some limitations on programming trunked systems (you need a key to program trunked systems and the sysop may deny you that key) and you should be careful about programming others to make sure you're not causing the licensee to exceed their license limits.

Also, you will have to properly license whatever SW you use.
 

mmckenna

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What are the steps i have to take. Is there a programmer license i must purchase?

Programming software is often "licensed" but I'm thinking you may be talking about FCC licensing to program radios.
No. There isn't a license to program radios.

There are requirements about what you are programming, though:

§90.427 Precautions against unauthorized operation.
(a) Each transmitter shall be so installed and protected that it is not accessible to or capable of operation by persons other than those duly authorized by and under the control of the licensee. Provisions of this part authorizing certain unlicensed persons to operate stations, or authorizing unattended operation of stations in certain circumstances, shall not be construed to change or diminish in any respect the responsibility of station licensees to maintain control over the stations licensed to them (including all transmitter units thereof), or for the proper functioning and operation of those stations and transmitter units in accordance with the terms of the licenses of those stations.

(b) Except for frequencies used in accordance with §90.417, no person shall program into a transmitter frequencies for which the licensee using the transmitter is not authorized.

90.427 says you cannot program a radio to work on a radio system unless you have the permission of the person who holds the FCC license.
A commonly ignored piece of the rules.
A good radio shop will require something in writing from the licensee saying it's OK to program a radio for use on the system. A good shop would cross check that against the FCC license.
There are no exceptions for this. Doesn't matter if it's a police officer, fire fighter, volunteer fire fighter, amateur radio operator (no matter what they tell you), EMT, stock boy at Wal*Mart, security guard, "volunteer police", search and rescue, etc. etc. etc. etc.

If you do not have some experience programming radios and understanding the FCC requirements and rules, then you probably need to reconsider. It is very easy for an inexperienced person to make a mistake.
 

pepper33

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Radio Programmers License

I am wanting to program 2-way vhf radio analog radios for public safety. I know i need to have permission from owner of frequency etc. As far as programming for Kenwood, Motorola, etc., Does anyone know how i can obtain software to program such radios?
 

pb_lonny

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I am wanting to program 2-way vhf radio analog radios for public safety. I know i need to have permission from owner of frequency etc. As far as programming for Kenwood, Motorola, etc., Does anyone know how i can obtain software to program such radios?

You purchase it?
 

mmckenna

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As far as programming for Kenwood, Motorola, etc., Does anyone know how i can obtain software to program such radios?

Kenwood:
Contact your local Kenwood dealer. You can purchase software from them. The specific software you need will depend on what radio models you are programming. You will also need the specific programming cables. The nice thing about modern Kenwood radios is that many of them use the same cables. There are two types for most mobiles and two types for most portables.

Motorola:
Open an account with Motorola Online.
You will need the specific software for the radios you are going to program and the correct programming cables.


You won't be able to program trunked radio systems. To do that you'll not only need the correct programming software and cable, but also the system key, and access to the trunked system to assign radio ID's and other info.
 
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DaveNF2G

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I am wanting to program 2-way vhf radio analog radios for public safety. I know i need to have permission from owner of frequency etc. As far as programming for Kenwood, Motorola, etc., Does anyone know how i can obtain software to program such radios?

Who is your intended market? Legitimate users of public safety communications get their radios programmed by trusted shops under government contracts or by suitably certified employees of an agency.
 

westcoaster

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I am wanting to start programming radios and selling them. I do not have a business yet or LLC. What are the steps i have to take. Is there a programmer license i must purchase?

The types of radios are the APCO 25 Phase 1 Digital Radios

I am wanting to program 2-way vhf radio analog radios for public safety. I know i need to have permission from owner of frequency etc. As far as programming for Kenwood, Motorola, etc., Does anyone know how i can obtain software to program such radios?


Ok, I'm going to leave the digital/analog discrepancy alone....

Looking optimistically, I'm guessing you want to start a two way radio business and you are simply wondering where to get started...

Well, that depends... What kind of business do you want to start? A legitimate authorized business? Or reselling craigslist and ebay finds?
What kind of support do you want to offer your customers? Just radio programming? or will you provide radio alignment tuning/service? antenna troubleshooting and servicing?

Lastly education. What education do you have in electronics/ radio's Ham radio certification? member of a ham radio club?
The local technical college does put on a two way radio course, but I understand they are aligned heavily with one manufacturer....

I'm not sure about the radio business, I am more familiar with business telephone systems. But I'm guessing...
Some one sets up a company. That company then will align itself with an equipment manufacturer (kenwood, Icom, Motorola) The manufacturer then allows that company access to training material and certifications on their product line. Once X number of employees are then certified, the manufacturer then permits access to tools to sell their product, listed as an authorized dealer on their web site, and technical support. There will probably also be a minimum quantity/type of test equipment required to be present in the business.(Example: http://www.testequipmentdepot.com/usedequipment/hewlettpackard/telcom/hp8920b.htm)
 

mmckenna

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Well yes, but i was meaning where you can purchase it. I am kinda leary of ebay...

See my post above.
You get the software from the dealer or the manufacturer. Many of the software disks on e-bay are bootleg, wrong market codes, etc.

If you are serious about this, you should be using legal software.
 

RadioGuy7268

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.... and I'll just point out that programming the radio to a specific frequency is not a guarantee that the radio is actually operating on that frequency, and holding the frequency without drift, or that the radio is putting out proper power, without spikes or spurs. You'll need extra equipment to actually test the radio once it's been programmed to verify the proper operation. Unless of course, you just want to poke and hope - but that's not really a good method for a professional operation dealing with Public Safety.

A new Service Monitor that will do Public Safety P25 digital, analog, trunking, DMR, etc - will set you back more than $40,000. You can rent them for around $2500-3000 a month on a lease contract. You will also need some training on how to work the machine, how to set up testing & alignment proceedures. The high end machines will do "auto tune", but you still need to know how to set it up, and you better know how to test it once it's been auto-tuned, to verify that you did it properly.

Programming is only about 20% of the business. Generally, people don't bring in fully functioning radios just to add a channel or modify the layout. Those who do bring in a radio often for 'minor' programming tweaks usually don't want to pay full price, and tend to be time-wasters. 20 people reading this just took that as an insult. Another 5 or 10 people reading this actually work in a shop and know the type that I'm talking about.

If you're trying to program Public Safety radios with eBay software, you're likely going to be a few versions behind, and not going to have full access to firmware updates or fixes. Won't even mention the legal angle. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. If it's not worth paying the price to do it right, then you should probably re-examine your business model.
 

KK4JUG

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I'm thinking the OP needs to find another like of work. There's simply more involved than he is aware of or capable of handling at this point.
 

pepper33

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Thanks

Thank you all for your input. I am a 911 Dispatcher and we have a very rural county. I have been programming baofeng for our volunteer firefighters etc. (With Permission from license owner). Was just looking to upgrade and start programming Kenwood, Motorola vhf. etc brands.
 

KK4JUG

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I apologize for my last post. I thought you were trying to go into the business.

I'm sorta familiar with that part of Arkansas. I used to live in Cass (pop. about 90, if everyone is home), about 17 miles north of Ozark.

I would shoot for the name brand radios. They're more dependable and the Baofeng's are certified for ham use only. That being said, I understand why you're using them. I also understand that money is tough to come by in a town your size. I don't know if your VFD has a fee for residents but perhaps a slight (and maybe temporary) increase to fund a more dependable communications system would be feasible. It would likely provide better response times and a safer environment for the firefighters. And, it might help lower the fire rating to a 3 which could easily lower the city's insurance rates.
 
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DaveNF2G

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Thank you all for your input. I am a 911 Dispatcher and we have a very rural county. I have been programming baofeng for our volunteer firefighters etc. (With Permission from license owner). Was just looking to upgrade and start programming Kenwood, Motorola vhf. etc brands.

I hope you are programming Part 90 certified Baofengs.
 

westcoaster

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Thank you all for your input. I am a 911 Dispatcher and we have a very rural county. I have been programming baofeng for our volunteer firefighters etc. (With Permission from license owner). Was just looking to upgrade and start programming Kenwood, Motorola vhf. etc brands.

It would seem to me You may have the cart before the horse here.

You will need to settle on a radio model first, then figure out what's going to be required to program later. (and/or use programming as a factor in your radio selection)

Each radio manufacturer will have a different software version for each different radio model. They would also require different programming cables.
While some different radio models from the same manufacturer may share the same programming cable, others may not.

It becomes cost effective to standardize on a single radio model rather than having an alphabet soup of all models and types with the corresponding purchase of software and cables.

edit: with one standardized model, programming can be as easy as copy and paste to every other radio in the fleet. It also shortens confusion on the users part as they move from one radio to the next.
 

jim202

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Thank you all for your input. I am a 911 Dispatcher and we have a very rural county. I have been programming baofeng for our volunteer firefighters etc. (With Permission from license owner). Was just looking to upgrade and start programming Kenwood, Motorola vhf. etc brands.


I am not trying to blow a hole in your interest to help out with programming the radios for the locals, but there is much more to it than just that.

I have been involved with public safety radios since the late 60's. I had the pleasure to run into a ham radio person who became my best friend. He took me under his wing and taught me all about the public safety radio systems, how to program radios, how to test the radios and about antenna systems and radio installs.

Without some one to be a mentor, your road to success will be a very bumpy and winding road. Take it from some one that has been there and had your interest, it is not easy.

You really need the test equipment that will allow you to fully test the radios after programming them. This includes RF power out, the transmitter is on frequency, the deviation of the transmitter is correct and the receiver is hearing signals at the sensitivity it should. Don't forget a good SWR meter to be able to measure the antenna system.

Back then I had a good job that paid well. I went out and looked for companies that had a good number of vehicles on the road and that I could service in the evening and weekends. I fell into a nice deal with a large asphalt and concrete company that had a fleet of around 50 or 60 vehicles.

The radio dispatcher at this company was an old air force person that understood radios. We hit it off well and I had a job repairing their old dying fleet of radios. I would go there on Monday, Wednesday and Friday nights after I got off my normal job. If there was work that I didn't get done during the week, I would come in on Saturday.

The company loved the night time work as it didn't take a truck off the road and a driver was not sitting around doing nothing. Yes there were spare vehicles, but these were not always available as the maintenance shop was generally overloaded just trying to keep the fleet on the road.

What this turned into was almost a full time second job. I ended up being able to purchase and pay for a brand new IFR 1200 service monitor with my income from the above company.

What you need to understand is that this is not the norm. You will not find a company today like what I did way back then. The coming of the cell phone industry has destroyed the two way radio service market. There have been many radio shops that have gone by the way side due to the cell phone use.

Yes you might find a few locations where the local radio shop is doing a bad job and has unhappy customers. They do crap work and have found ways to do the work so that they get repeat service calls. But companies doing work like this don't last long. Those customers eventually catch on to the type of work being done and go looking for another radio shop.

The down side of the poor work radio shops, is that they generally survive because they are out in the middle of no where. There is no other radio shop to compete with them.. The radio users are not willing to pay another radio shop to drive 2 hours to just get to them and another 2 hours to get home. Plus the time on site to work on the radio problem. Then guess what, the service tech may not have the parts to repair the problem. Now that means another day and another 4 hours your going to pay for the tech to make a second trip out to the customer. It's much better customer relations to get the full details of just what the problem is and bring what ever parts you think your going to need for the repair.

Radio service out in the country is much different than service in the big city. But the big city traffic can cause almost the same long travel times.

You really need the ability to have the radio service test equipment with you when you go on a call. This means it needs to be light enough to carry easily. It also needs to be rugged to stand up to the constant moving around and the banging it will take.

What will the minimum test equipment cost? That depends on how and what you plan to do and where you plan to do it. I set my van up with a power inverter to have 120 volts AC to run my test equipment. Ran an extension cord. I also installed some lighting in the back of the van so I didn't have to keep relying on using a flash light to see what I was doing.

Hope this provides you with some thought on what you will be looking at if you really want to get into the kick of servicing two way radios. But I would suggest looking around to see what your competition is and what the radio market is around you. You need work in order to support your test equipment and the vehicle you will be using. Just the fuel to drive around with is enough to make the average person think again.

I would also look around and ask a bunch of questions about what kind of service a potential customer is getting. How satisfied they are with the service work they are getting. The most important question now is what are they paying for that service. You need to know this before planting your feet on the long road your about to go down.

You will need to commit some funding to your endeavor before you even take the first step. You can't service any radio with out a way to even test it. This is the first hurdle you need to figure out how to get over. This is not ham radio where you can get by with it being off frequency some and the audio doesn't sound very good. Public safety and business radios need to work and work correctly.

I know I have got long winded here, but I have been in your shoes. Only I had someone to take me by the hand and show me the road to take. It took several years before I stepped out on my own to service radios. I don't think you have anyone at this point. This is going to make a whole world of difference to you.

Jim
 
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