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Old 04-02-2018, 11:08 PM
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Default Breaking encryptioni

I know nothing of how encryption is done. I know there is a key (128 bit?). If a system has a single non-changing key why can't it be broken? Wouldn't you just try a number, wait for a transmission, change it if didn't work? If you had a key is there any scanner that could use it somehow
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Old 04-02-2018, 11:25 PM
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Here's the number of keys you will need to try:

115,792,089,237,316,195,423,570,985,008,687,907,85 3,269,984,665,640,564,039,457,584,007,913,129,639, 936

Happy hunting
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Old 04-02-2018, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scanmanmi View Post
I know nothing of how encryption is done. I know there is a key (128 bit?). If a system has a single non-changing key why can't it be broken? Wouldn't you just try a number, wait for a transmission, change it if didn't work? If you had a key is there any scanner that could use it somehow
You missed your chance. April Fools day was yesterday
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Old 04-02-2018, 11:28 PM
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And then they could change it tomorrow and you'd have to start all over again.
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Old 04-02-2018, 11:32 PM
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And if against all odds you happen to be so gifted as to break 128 big encryption, you will be a very popular individual...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_Rising
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Old 04-03-2018, 1:55 AM
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And if against all odds you happen to be so gifted as to break 128 big encryption, you will be a very popular individual...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_Rising
and guilty of a felony
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Old 04-03-2018, 2:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scanmanmi View Post
I know nothing of how encryption is done. I know there is a key (128 bit?). If a system has a single non-changing key why can't it be broken? Wouldn't you just try a number, wait for a transmission, change it if didn't work? If you had a key is there any scanner that could use it somehow
For some timelines, check how long cracking a 72 bit key has taken.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed.net

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Old 04-03-2018, 6:02 AM
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For some timelines, check how long cracking a 72 bit key has taken.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributed.net

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$10k prize? They should put that power into mining instead and would already all be millionaires.
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Old 04-03-2018, 6:39 AM
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They started that challenge long before Bitcoin was invented.
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Old 04-03-2018, 10:32 AM
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AES is 256 not 128
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Old 04-03-2018, 10:36 AM
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Actually there are 3 versions of AES: 128-bit, 192-bit, and 256-bit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanc...ption_Standard
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Old 04-03-2018, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scanmanmi View Post
I know nothing of how encryption is done. I know there is a key (128 bit?). If a system has a single non-changing key why can't it be broken? Wouldn't you just try a number, wait for a transmission, change it if didn't work? If you had a key is there any scanner that could use it somehow
This has been hashed pretty well, but I'll add my $0.02 anyway. Back in the old days of analog inversion encryption (still used on some CCR's), you could step through the various encryption iterations. As you got closer to actual decryption, the voice would get more intelligible until it was completely in the clear.

There were even some aftermarket products designed for the "hobby" market to decode analog inversion encryption. These worked because there weren't that many possible key combinations.

Digital encryption changed everything because of the massive number of non-related possible keys. In your example, could a static 128 bit key be broken? Yes, given enough computing power and time. Sometimes there are back doors and mathematical shortcuts. The folks at Fort Meade would know far more about this than I, but for the average user, consider digital encryption to be unbreakable.
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Old 04-03-2018, 11:46 AM
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Lightbulb Rijndael (AES-128) Visualization

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evjFwDRTmV0

You might have a better appreciation of the complexity of AES by watching this video.

There's a reason why strong encryption exists.

Craig
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Old 04-03-2018, 11:50 AM
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This has been hashed pretty well, but I'll add my $0.02 anyway. Back in the old days of analog inversion encryption (still used on some CCR's), you could step through the various encryption iterations. As you got closer to actual decryption, the voice would get more intelligible until it was completely in the clear.
Well-designed encryption algorithms aren't like that. If you guess even one key bit wrong, the output is mathematically indistinguishable from random static, the same as any other wrong guess. That's what makes encryption unbreakable, at least with any known practical analysis methods. AES has some theoretical attacks, but some of them require more storage space than currently exists on earth, so they aren't very practical.
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Old 04-03-2018, 12:13 PM
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Voice inversion isn't really encryption. It is essentially the same as tuning to the wrong sideband in SSB. Recovering the audio is fairly trivial.
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Old 04-03-2018, 12:25 PM
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Voice inversion isn't really encryption. It is essentially the same as tuning to the wrong sideband in SSB. Recovering the audio is fairly trivial.
Years ago an Italian ham radio operator wrote software to un-invert the audio.
http://antoninoporcino.xoom.it
It might be illegal to use it the US.
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Old 04-03-2018, 1:43 PM
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Voice Inversion is not considered encryption. It is legal to use.
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Old 04-03-2018, 3:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UPMan View Post
Voice inversion isn't really encryption. It is essentially the same as tuning to the wrong sideband in SSB. Recovering the audio is fairly trivial.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UPMan View Post
Voice Inversion is not considered encryption. It is legal to use.
But, since the purpose of voice inversion is to render the content of the transmission unintelligible in order to prevent unauthorized monitoring, I suspect the law may look at it differently.

I don't think it's ever been tested in a court case, but I wouldn't think it worthwhile to be that test case. . . . .
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Old 04-03-2018, 5:00 PM
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There is a legal definition of encryption. Typical voice inversion does not meet the legal definition. We have had this discussion with a government agency, before (not in court, but not far short of it).
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Old 04-03-2018, 8:26 PM
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Want to break encryption? All you have to have is access to WindsorGreen. Ole and to get that you'd probably need to be working for the NSA.

Houk
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